"Is it not so much that you want a legal work system as you want them out of here, if so why is that?  Why is it that you feel one ethnic group of people have anymore right over this land than another?" 

xcite, I didn't make mention of one specific ethnic group nor did I say anything about wanting them "out of here". I said just the opposite - I don't care who they are or what country they are from, welcome to my wonderful country - BUT DO IT LEGALLY, LEARN THE LANGUAGE and don't drain the system. 

Why do you have such a problem with the word illegal? I don't have problems with anyone who is here legally. You admitted using illegal labor on your house - oh wait - you didn't hire them, the contractor did. Who hired the contractor? YOU did, therefore, you are guilty of the exploitation that you accuse everyone else of. As an American, the drain on the system should be troubling to you as well.

Concerned-I too,grew up in ag..I didn't have to pick crops as much as some in my family,but ours and every generation before me did some,farmed and or worked in packing sheds or herded sheep or raised other livestock.I agree with you about those of Hispanic background in those days.They were as good,honest,hardworking family oriented people as you could ever meet.Some were considered part of our family.I was completely shocked when I moved to the city years later and found out that all Hispanics weren't like that.Many,many are still,I know that.As with every race,it's the  minority that makes the rest look bad.I also hate to generalize as "Hispanic",people who come from such diverse areas to the south and from cultures that may have evolved very different values and concepts of laws.I suspect that many of our illegals have no respect for laws because where they come from that is how it is.I don't know much about what goes on on the east coast,to tell you the truth,I think that when you put that many people so close together as in those big cities,nothing much good will happen.Off topic-I have to ask you though,was your family from mainland Portugal or the Azores?Ours was from Flores.

Rm6-I said "used to be"in reference to earlier European immigration.I wasn't inferring that there aren't rules and etc. now.I respect that they went at things legally and showed respect for this new country and its laws.I cannot say that about people today who hold rallys and parades to demand that those here in violation of our laws not be treated as lawbreakers.I suspect that as you say,most legal immigrants are gratefull to be here,etc..If the borders were different and it was Europeans breaking laws to get into this country,I would be just as concerned that they would continue to do so once they were here.I support legal immigration.The system as it now stands is seriously flawed.I have a friend that works with hispanic immigrants trying to help them become legal.She tells stories about the injustices towards these people by those here legally.It's wrong.It is still a system of laws though,and I feel that they should be followed and respected.I'm not sure which time frame you are referring to on the bulk of European immigration and saying that there were no laws against it.Regarding White Supremacist gangs,yes,they are a problem too,but I suspect not to the degree of the Hispanic gangs.By the way-I despise them equally.I think that it's been a few generations since the forefathers of those white boys immigrated.It is probably a great example of repeat offenders though.My comments were responding to the comment that there are just as many people from other countries committing the same crimes.My point was that I just don't see that here in Ca..

 

"Regarding earlier European immigration though,there used to be quotas, rules and restrictions that had to be followed,often people had to be sponsered to enter the country.By in large,those legal immigrants were also incredibly gratefull to be here and tried hard to become Americans.They learned the language and often changed their names to reflect their new citizenship.They learned the laws and followed them and worked hard in their new home.That's a far cry from sneaking over the border illegaly and then demanding that your illegal status should be ignored."

So you think that quotas, rules and restrictions don't exist anymore? Don't glorify Europeans, most legal immigrants from everywhere are grateful to be here, try hard to become Americans, learn the language, and follow our laws. Europeans don't immigrate across a border they have immigrate across an ocean. If Central America switched places with Europe, I think there would be plenty of Europeans that would sneak across the border. Also when the bulk of European immigration occurred, there were no laws against illegal immigration. So all the "illegal immigrants" of today want the same treatment as the first immigrants to America, that is, a free pass to a new land and hopefully a better life.

I haven't heard of any French prison gangs, but I've heard of plenty of white supremacist gangs in CA prisons (watch American History X), so those of European descent are certainly doing their part in causing chaos in our justice system. The Swiss aren't committing crimes and running back to their country, but I think that is due in large part to the fact that (1) Switzerland is a First World country, so the Swiss really have no reason to desperately want to come here and (2) Switzerland is 10,000 miles from the United States, not exactly right next door.

Concerned,I wholeheartily agree with your comments regarding the legal residents that are abusing the system.It's appauling.Regarding earlier European immigration though,there used to be quotas, rules and restrictions that had to be followed,often people had to be sponsered to enter the country.By in large,those legal immigrants were also incredibly gratefull to be here and tried hard to become Americans.They learned the language and often changed their names to reflect their new citizenship.They learned the laws and followed them and worked hard in their new home.That's a far cry from sneaking over the border illegaly and then demanding that your illegal status should be ignored.I think that the initial issue for most of us here is due to the choice of illegal entry and the concept that if a person is willing to break the laws to get into the country,it's unlikely that they will hesitate to break others while they are here.Many Hispanics who are here legaly have the same complaints about those who choose to break the laws to get in the door.If it was only a few illegal immigrants doing those things in our state,I don't think that many of us would be concerned.When was the last time that illegal German immigrants were busted for pot farms in our National Forests?How many French prison gangs are having turf/drug wars in Ca. prisons and neighborhoods?And the Swiss,are they here committing crimes and then running back to their countries to escape prosecution?No,everyone of Hispanic background should not have these things held against them.There are wonderfull,honest hardworking Americans of Hispanic descent.It's the dispropportionate number of those who are breaking the law that we are upset over.

Perhaps the apparent fact that the word "illegal" means nothing to this person is the problem.

I couldn't have said it better myself SAM.

It is obvious Xcite enjoys the profits he receives from slave labor and enjoys calling anyone a "racist" that does not agree with his blatant racism, refusing to say or do anything to hold a blatantly racist Mexico to account for its own citizens. Americans want secure borders and that does not translate into "racism" apart from those that profit from slave labor and have no argument apart from callling anyone a racist that disagrees with them.

Xcite your the brick wall that just doesn't get it. What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand.

I know I am

 

your talking to a brick wall.

Wow still dont get it!!!

Olivia is right this has nothing to do with racism and perhaps you should listen to Lou Dobbs and Fox and not so much the leftist media.  Funny you should bring up Oildale that has a reputation for skinheads and intolerance.  You just hit the nail on the head and that is ignorance.  Ignorant whites are just a disturbing as ignorance in any other culture.  Your argument still doesn't explain the statistics.  Ignorance does.  Education is the key.  I have spent much time in Mexico and Central America.  I learned the language as a courtesy to the people there.  Those I spoke with might like to visit America, but they did not want to live here.  Why do you think that is?  Because the people I spoke with had decent lives in small towns with tourist income.  The people coming into the states come from the poorest villages and the most uneducated classes of their society.  Do I blame them for wanting a better life?  NO.  I want our laws to be enforced here.  I do NOT want 4 million undocumented aliens wandering our land in this day and age.  

You keep hammering on the subject that we don't appreciate food, clothes, etc. handed to us by the sweat of the brow of the illegals.  I know for a fact that my home was not built by illegals because my contractor did not hire them.  My fruits and vegetables are bought at the farmers' market when in season and when I buy them at the store they have lables like Equador, Costa Rica and Nicaragua on them.  Clothing is mostly imported from India and China.  Oh yeah, my car's engine was assembled in Mexico.  If I had any reason to believe that illegals were working in the restaurants I frequent, I would be the first to call ICE, but then these are mainly family owned places and I know for a fact that they don't hire illegals.  No I don't see the GREAT positive impact of illegals in my life that you keep harping about.

I do however see the HUGE potential for illegals to be exploited and I see it coming from their own race.  Regardless, illegal is illegal and if that be Mexican, Arab, Persian, Nicaraguan, or Canadian, they need to be rounded up and tossed out of this country.  At this point I am not even amiable to an amnesty program and arguments like yours calling me a racist aren't going to make me more amiable.  But when you don't have any other arguments the last one is always the race card isn't it?  Oh, by the way, I am part Comanche and part Kiowa, so I guess I have more of a claim in living here than you do, according to your logic.

Bottom line is they are illegal, There are people all over the world that are suffering, do we also allow them to come to our country. NO. I told myself that I would not comment on this post because the people that are for illegal immigration have no respect for our immigration laws.Talking to them is like talking to a wall. In fact you would probably get more out of the wall. All the augments that they have really don't mater to me because the are supporting breaking of the law. Of course they will say the laws are racist and that we are mean people for wanting to have the laws enforced.  They will use the line that these are poor hard working good people that just want to feed their family's and give to give their kids a better life. But what they leave out is that they are breaking the law to do it. I don't have all the answers but i want our laws enforced. What i find funny is Mexico has  very stricked immigration laws that they enforce. Figure that one out.

All I am saying is quit believing everything you read or see on fox news or Lou dobbs.  Examine what the PERSONAL cost is to you and just try to be a loving human being of your fellow man.  In your daily coming and going I would bet that an illegal doesn't bother you one bit.  Can you not understand that our Government likes us all tangled up in race fighting and injustice so we are worried about getting more than the other.  This way we will never see past the fact that they are ripping us off with tax and cooperate globalization. 

Believe me I'm not crying poor me this country has blessed me and my family beyond my wildest dreams.  This is for so many people about race, my hats off to you if you don't skew your view due to that, but the fact is that so many false statistics are out from people for no other reason just hate other people. 

You have to understand something Olivia, I have lived through the dream of America.  Me an "anchor baby" grew and thrived here.  My grandparents became naturalized citizens the correct way and after that my Grandmother was deported to Mexico in a packing house raid.  Deported even as an American citizen.  This topic upsets me.  Most people that complain about "illegals" do so without ever giving one thought as to how much work these people do for all of us.  We all exists on this planet together no one is independent from anothers actions or lives without the hard work of others.  Why can people not see this?