There's no "Iraq War" to debate, Starbucks1. Call it what it is: an occupation. Troops are over there trying to keep the peace & rebuild all the stuff we destroyed. That's an occupation, not a war. If was truly a war, we would have had a war declaration. We don't, & never did.

The surge was supposed to give the Iraqis breathing space in order to get their house in order. Now Starbucks1, please show me where there's "good news" to report about that? None, you say? You mean to say that there's been no advancement in the Iraqi parliament to pass the laws that Bush demands they pass? You mean their idea of democracy is different than ours? Imagine that...

Let's deal with the news of today, not the news of the past century. Who cares that Bush the First or Bill Clinton didn't take out Hussein? What difference does that make, today? He's gone now, so let's get the heck out of Dodge while we still can. Let's save some of that money your kids & grandkids are going to have to pay, eventually. How do your children feel about the tens of thousands of dollars they will have to pay for this debacle you call the Iraq War?

OK, there is no way in my opinion that someone that makes 20-30 grand a month is middle class. Not here in Ca anyway.

I mean lets say someone is paying $450 a month for rent for a one bedroom apt.  That's $5,400 right there, and that's not including the quarters needed for laundry. :) Then let's say they are spending $350 on their car and insurance. That's $4,200 right there. Then give them $25 dollars in gas twice a month that's $600.  So we've just spent $10200 and we haven't eaten yet, paid for gas electricity or our phone bill or heaven forbid day care.

madkow, you said: "The war has nothing to do with college grants... they were the same before the war..." My point was that maybe Bush would be more inclined to free up more grant money for students if he weren't so convinced to throw good money after bad, chasing some kind of elusive victory in Iraq. He's also vetoing spending bills claiming they have too much pork. Just today, he vetoed a bill that increased spending only 1% over the previous year! He wants to spend billions of dollars for this occupation that your little boy will end up paying for, and yet he continues to veto bi-partisan spending bills that benefit our own country! Don't you see the irony of that?

He continues to short-change our very own citizens all in the name of this "war." Grant availability was different before the occupation...

http://insidehighered.com/n...

"A few days before Christmas, the Bush administration announced changes in the formulas used to determine eligibility for Pell Grants — changes that resulted in tends of thousands of people losing their eligibility for grants and many more seeing their grants reduced in size.  

The administration has said ever since that the changes were needed for fairness — to make sure that students with the greatest need receive the awards and to reflect changes in state tax policies. But a Government Accountability Office report released Friday portrays a very different picture: First, the report backs up the statements of higher education lobbying groups that the change in the formula will have a broad and negative impact on the availability of funds for students to pay for college. Second, the report suggests that the Bush administration could have dealt with the need to update the formula in other ways that would not have hurt nearly as many students or families."

countygirl, I think you meant $20-30 grand per year. $20-30 grand a month is quite a bit!

madkow, how can a reduction of 81,000 students be an increase of students? Who's claiming that increase; the administration, right? Why on earth do you believe anything they say? BTW, check the dates of our two links.

IAC, there were several other calculations that could have had a much smaller effect on recipients. Why did the administration make it seem their hands were tied on this one? Another lie?

So yeah, after several years of ethnic cleansing & millions of Iraqis displaced from their homes, the violence is going down. Surprise, surprise. Those living in Baghdad are partitioned behind concrete barriers. They live in segregated communities. The whole country is dividing up along religious/ethnic lines. The Kurds have basically formed their own mini-state already. What Joe Biden predicted several years ago is now coming true. Nothing shocking here.

And yeah, some troops will be coming home next year, unless Dubya can figure out a way to extend their tours again. It went from 12 months to 15, remember? And why was that? Because they are running out of service people. They'll have to reduce the troop size deployed in Iraq, regardless of what's going on at the time. So, how many chickenhawks here are going to sign up? If not, you'd better rethink your support of this "war." (Not that I'm calling you a chickenhawk, madkow. They know who they are.)

Starbucks, how many soldiers have you talked to? You state that 99% want to finish the job. 

 posted by Starbucks1 on Nov 13, 2007 at 11:52 AM

how many of you have talked to soldiers that have been there?, I have, 99% want to finish the job,

Just wondering?  Why have you singled bigdog and myself out on doing some research? 

bigdog, do a little research on where money goes to our military and you might learn something,

Olivia, it is easier for poor kids to go to college than middle class kids, do some research

You are kind of freaking me out!  On an earlier blog you asked me where I live?  Where do you live?  I really only know one neighbor well on this street.  So....Not really sure what your issue is.  Don't really care....You are just getting on my nerves is all.

*blushing*

Thank you, Starbucks1. I respect your POV, too.

Starbucks, generally I am a nice person.  (depends on how annoyed I am getting)  I refer to oohchild as a "link freak" because some of her posts have multiple links with explanations behind every one of them.  I don't mean anything "terrible" by it.  I call my daughter a "peta freak".  I call my husband a "freak".  I guess freak is a daily part of my "not so intelligent" vocabulary.  Oohchild I hope you don't take my comment too personally, (you don't seem like the type who would) you are very intelligent.  For those of us "not so intelligent", the links only confuse the sh*t out of me.  The same with "Sam"  I think he is also a very intelligent person.  A lot of things I read from him I find very interesting.  He makes me wish that I had grown up during his era.  Other stuff, I'm wondering....what the hell is he talking about.  Everyone has their own style of writing.  A lot of personality can show through.  Hence the reason for me only using one screen name.  (People who know my style would be able to pick me out easily).

Now, from what I pick up from your style, is since you "know" me, I feel you are trying to say something to me.  I almost feel some kind a passive agressive thing going on with you.  You pop out of nowhere....you ask me where I live.  You jump on  "bigdog abuse" thing like we were serious.  You described our "eyesore" of a yard almost to a tee, and now you choose Bigdog and I both to say "educate yourself".  Maybe I am reading more into these...what I would call strange comments.  Not sure....it's hard to tell when you are just typing back and forth to each other.

Why would you ask me where I live?  Does anyone else find that kind of creepy or is it just me?