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Hall Ambulance and Paramedic Coverage
It's time to provide adequate coverage....
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Harvey Hall Fighting Paramedic Service By Firefighters
Move our EMS standards from the Amish level tothe current century!
Move our EMS standards from the Amish level to the current century...
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concernedcitizen - > Hall Ambulance and Paramedic Coverage -> Move our EMS standards from the Amish level to the current century...
Move our EMS standards from the Amish level to the current century...
Some little known information (from my point of view) about EMS (Emergency Medical Services) in Kern County:
Some of the Kern County firefighters as well as those working for the City of Bakersfield are Certified Emergency Paramedics.  However, when they respond to a medical aid call, they are restricted from performing their duties as a Paramedic--they are only allowed to perform as an EMT, which is basically administering first aid  and using the automatic defibrillation units that anyone with a current CPR card is trained to use.  Their paramedic skills, including starting an IV and administering life saving fluids and drugs, are unable to be used.
Why , you ask?
Well, that is because Hall has the contract to provide ambulance service in this county  and is not allowing anyone other than his paramedics to provide advanced life support services.  So, the firefighter/paramedics that respond and arrive first on the scene of a medical aid have to wait until the Hall paramedics get there.
Why is he doing this? 
The only reason I can think of is perhaps he is afraid someone else is going to get a piece of his pie.  He may be afraid that if  Kern County trains firefighters to be paramedics or allows the firefighters that are currently paramedics to use their skills, that they may eventually want to put ambulances at their fire stations, putting his sweet little monopoly to an end.  Now that the problem has been identified...
What is the solution?
Kern County firefighters need to be able to function as paramedics. In most California counties and cities, firefighters are paramedics also. They already respond to all medical aid calls, so providing advance life support services could easily be implemented.  That way, the Kern County firefighter/paramedic could immediatley begin to provide the advanced life support care that the people of Tehachapi and especially the outlying areas, need.  Once Hall's ambulance arrived on the scene, report can be given, both the Kern County firefighter/paramedic and Hall's paramedic can work together to stabilize the patient.   Once stabilized, care is transferred to Hall's paramedic and the patient is transported to the hospital by Hall's ambulance.  This frees the Kern County firefighter/paramedic to return to his fire station, and keeps the level of EMS/fire supression at the level it has always been.
Why isn't this being done?
Well, do you think the City of Bakersfield, with Hall as their MAYOR, are going to complain?  Who would they complain to?  The MAYOR, WHO ALSO OWNS THE AMBULANCE COMPANY?  Do you really think the Kern County Board of Supervisors are going to rock the boat and go up against Mayor Hall?  It would probably be the end of their political careers.
What are some other considerations?
Well, training a firefighter to be a paramedic can be costly to the county.  It takes that firefighter out of service while he attends the 6 mth paramedic program.  It would be a huge expense covering his shifts and paying for the program.  To minimize the financial impact, some cities/counties are now requiring  that any new firefighter recruit hired must have already have completed paramedic training as well as the required Fire Science degree.  But if the firefighter/paramedic training had been implemented years ago as it should have been, the impact would have been spread over a period of time.  However, it is not too late to begin to provide the same level of service that most Californians, even those residing in rural areas, receive every day.
Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Hall's, ambulance, paramedic, EMT, mayor, EMS, Emergency Medical Services
posted by concernedcitizen on Saturday, August 25, 2007 at 02:14 AM
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70 comments from 21 users

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posted by anonymous on Aug 25, 2007 at 06:54 AM
How are the KCFD and BCFD maintaining their paramedic qualifications if they cannot perform paramedic duties?  I sure there has to be some sort of CEU's or hands on training that should be signed by a qualified person. 
posted by anonymous on Aug 25, 2007 at 09:15 AM

Amish level!   That's stretching it a bit, even for you.

posted by concernedcitizen on Aug 25, 2007 at 09:40 AM
Some of them work for Hall's on their days off, others chose to go to other ambulance companies in surrounding counties to get their requires hours and CEU's.
Yes....Amish level is somewhat of a tall tale..but it got your attention and made you think....;)
posted by scottso on Aug 26, 2007 at 12:07 AM
This seems a dangerous way to practice.  I can't help but think this would be a major lawsuit waiting to happen.  If I put in an emergency call and someone died or was seriously debilitated because the paramedics that arrived on the scene could not perform their duties due to "contractual obligations" with Hall ambulance there would be lawyers crawling all over this place.  I mean, really, who in their right mind would even consider not administering the proper treatment to save someone's life because of a piece of paper?  How could Hall possibly enforce something like this?  This doesn't ring true to me.  If someone would rather keep their job than save the life of the person they are supposed to be helping then they are in the wrong career and I certainly would not want them treating me or mine.
posted by concernedcitizen on Aug 26, 2007 at 07:29 PM
Firefighters who are also paramedics are unable to "administer the proper treatment to save someone's life" because they are not allowed to carry drug boxes and IV's needed to provide Advanced Life Support.  Call Kern County Fire and ask they how many of their firefighters are also paramedics--I don't know either, but I do know there are some.  Kern County Fire may not know either since they don't employ them as paramedics.   Almost every other county in California employs their firefighter as paramedics --except Kern.  If the county used their firefighters as paramedics also, Advance Life Support could be started immeditaly, instead of waiting for Hall's ambulance with paramedics to arrive.  This would save lives--especially in the outlying communites such as Stallion Springs and Bear Valley which have full time firefighters.  Almost 2/3 of fire department calls are for medical aid, and it is time for them to be able to provide paramedic coverage also.  I'm not against Hall's--they provide a much needed service and all my interactions with them prove they run top notch crews.   But with the population growth in this area, it's time to start providing the same level of service that the rest of the state, even rural area have.
posted by bigdog on Aug 27, 2007 at 07:30 AM

I worked as a EMT for WESTAR before HALLS took over out in the Mojave area. WESTAR also ran basic life support ambulances, with two EMT'S. A paramedic can not hand off a patient to a EMT he must hand the patient off to another paramedic. the problem is with kern county and EMS. Kern county needs to run all advanced life support units with paramedics. How would you like to be having chest pains out in bear valley, firemen there within minutes only to wait 15 to 25 minutes more only to have a BLS unit with two emts arrive on scene. I wouldn't.

posted by LoriMorales on Aug 27, 2007 at 09:47 AM

Can we attach this firefighter vs. paramedic information to our recently disbanded Tehachapi Fire Department?  I think previously blogs have done so.

Are these decisions being made for reasons of profit?

posted by concernedcitizen on Aug 27, 2007 at 01:58 PM
Big Dog--this info took even me by surprise!  I assumed (and you know what happens when people assume) that with the population of Tehachapi and the outlying areas, that Hall's ran only paramedic with an emt ambulance.   Imagine having chest pain or being in a serious car accident out in Stallion Spring/BearValley/Alpine/Mojave and just receiving first aid as medical care because that is all the Hall's emt's can do!!!???I realize that a paramedic cannot hand over a pt to an emt, but I thought all of Hall's ambulances had one paramedic aboard.  The level of care and service provided by Hall's is worse than I thought.  Hall's need to run a paramedic with every ambulance as a minimum standard of care.  Allowing the Kern County firefighters to work as paramedics would greatly increase the number of lives saved.
 As you said, waiting for an ambulance for 15 to 25 mins to respond to an outlying area, add in a 5-10 min scene time to reassess and load the patient and another 15 min-20 min back into town--and thats Code 3 --that's a total of a minimum of 40 min. (on a good day). You can drive someone to the hospital in half that time.  I would never encourage this, but it sure may make you think twice about calling 911. However, if Kern County had firefighter/paramedics, advanced life support could be started immediately. Kern County and the residents of this area, need to demand paramedic service on Hall's ambulances as a minimum standard of care.
Does Hall's run emt only ambulances in Bakersfield? Or are all of their unit paramedic in Bakersfield?? I can't imagine the City of Bakersfield not being able to use their firefighters as paramedics, then to have emt's respond on the ambulance.  Or is Tehachapi being treated differently than Bakersfield?
Yes, this blog can be moved to another area..but I' new at htis and don't know how to do that....
posted by bigdog on Aug 27, 2007 at 02:17 PM

I'm not sure if HALL has a paramedic on every ambulance now. But I know they used to run ALS ambulance with a BLS back up ambulance in tehachapi.

 

posted by tehachapidad on Aug 27, 2007 at 06:18 PM
There is ALS ONLY in Tehachapi.
posted by concernedcitizen on Aug 27, 2007 at 08:31 PM
tehachapi dad--Is the backup ambulance ALS?  How often is it used?  Glad to hear  Hall's runs ALS in Tehachachapi--my heart palpitations have diminished....
posted by tehachapidad on Aug 28, 2007 at 10:54 AM
Yes the 12 hour car is ALS and so are the backups from all of East Kern including Mojave,  & Cal City. The only exception to the ALS vs BLS is sometimes standbys at the Rodeo and other standbys are BLS (Dual EMT's)because that is what they ask for. Not always but sometimes. Hall does run BLS "TRANSFER" units in Bakersfield as well. Glad to hear your heart is beating more normal!!!!
posted by Firemedic on Sep 2, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Hello one and all,

Where have you all been over the past couple years.  The residence of Pine Mountain have been addressing this same issue for the last couple of years asking and going before the BOS to start a firefighter/paramedic pilot program for all the small mtn communities and cities like yourselves.  Right now there are "20" kern county firefighters enrolled in paramedic school.  Although Chief Thompson states it will take 3 years to start a program, it would not take that much time to put paramedic assessment engines into service.  On another note, halls has stop responding his ALS unit out of Frazier Park into LA County and has stationed a BLS unit with the ALS in Frazier to handle all calls in LA County and Ventura (Hungry Valley Area).  This was implemented about a week ago.  I heard that Tehachachai is suppose to be getting an BLS unit as well per the Halls guys I spoke with from Frazier Park.  So you guys will have 2 ALS units and 1 BLS unit.  The reason for the change is because Harvey want to make sure he can respond to all this ALS calls in a timely manner due to the new ambulance ord. just passed.  Everyone needs to keep the pressure on so Kern can have Firefighter Paramedics sooner that the 3 year time frame that the Chief informed the BOS of in early August.
posted by concernedcitizen on Sep 3, 2007 at 12:29 AM
Great news FireMedic!  Now for a few questions...you said "20 are enrolled in paramedic school" does this mean 20 showed interest or are actually attending classes now?  If so, they should be graduated and passed boards by this time next year.  Are they going to man stations according to need?   Or do we have to wait until firefighters from those stations are medics?  Preference for classes should be given to firefighters in outlying areas...Frazier Park, Stallion Springs, Bear Valley and Mojave.  What about the Kern County Firefighters that are medics now-when will the engines be medic ready?
In regards to the 2nd ambulance in Tehachapi-It's been since APRIL 2007 since Halls announced they were going to put in a 2nd ambulance in Golden Hills,  but where is it? Has any progress been made?
posted by tehachapidad on Sep 5, 2007 at 06:22 PM
Yes, I got suckered by Hall. That never happens!!!! LOL. Thats the last time I trust my sources. They now have a BLS unit in Tehachapi just a week after I said they don't. WOW!!! Boy, do times change. Maybe its time I leave, because I dont want BLS Ambulance running a critical family member when the ALS cars run out. Or maybe I should become a KCFD Medic and help them. Its a sign!!!! Im gone!!!
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