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eekitsaspider - > eekitsaspider -> Restraints
Restraints

Lastnite when i was putting my groceries into my car another car pulled up next to me and parked. I noticed that there were 5 people in the car 2 of which were children. One child was about 6 months old and the other arround 2-3 years old. I also noticed that a woman was holding the baby in her lap. Neither child had a car seat or a seat belt, but i did notice the 3 other passengers had one on and were taking them off.

Today in the bakersfield news website there is an article about 2 women that were in an accident and failed to restrain an infant girl. Due to the accident the infant girl died. The driver was arrested for manslaughter and i believe the mother was arrested for child endangerment. The article is at www.turnto23.com for more information.

I personally do not understand how a person would allow a child to be in a vehicle without proper restraints. I also feel that it is child endangerment and the driver should be jailed.

How does everyone else feel about this? Can a citizen report a matter like this to the police?

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posted by eekitsaspider on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 at 03:49 PM
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24 comments from 12 users

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posted by beekeeper on Feb 27, 2007 at 04:16 PM
The story in the Californian is about a 4 month old baby who's mother was having an asthma attack. It is not that easy to restrain an infant in a car seat on the way to the emergency room. It was not reckless endangerment. It was rushed, panicked and motherly to hold the baby in her lap rather than strap the baby in an "appropriate seat" as she was gasping for air.

 We are a little extreme with our car seat laws. They are necessary in accidents, and you never know when an accident is coming. But there was a day when kids could sit in the front seat, and I remember sitting on dad's lap "driving" too. At 5 or 6 years old. Not that safe... sure. We all know that now. In this case, however, the mother and grandmother are just concerned about the baby. They did their best. They lost her. Aren't they going through enough?
posted by eekitsaspider on Feb 27, 2007 at 04:51 PM

Yes i agree they are going through enough with losing the child. That is something i would never want to experience and it saddens me a great deal to hear of someone losing a child. But here is a comment that someone said when i was telling the story to them " if the mother was that bad off with an asthma attack then why didnt they just call an ambulance?". Everyone makes mistakes and it is sad that it cost a child's life.

But lastnite when the people had 2 children without a car seat and they were at a store to shop there is NO EXCUSE for that whatsover in my opinion. Sure back in the day there was no such thing as car seats or seat belts and children were allowed to sit on dad's lap. But today we have learned that it is dangerous and can kill and that is a risk i am not willing to take. And i cannot understand why anyone would take the chance.

posted by sushisoo on Feb 27, 2007 at 05:04 PM
I see your point beekeeper and I feel sick with grief for that family's loss and suffering.
Sadly, the enforcement of safety seat laws only seems to come to the fore when there's been a tragedy like this. It might be more effective to ask families who have suffered from these tragedies to help promote the use of safety seats.
I used to be allowed to help "drive'  when I was a kid also. And riding in the back of the truck was the absolute coolest although I was never allowed to sit on top of the wheel wells. But  we learned from those mistakes, sadly after many innocent lives were lost. Which is why we have these kinds of restraints now - although Consumer Reports recently made then withdrew a claim that said most infant car seats failed safety crash tests. I know I often struggled with installing them correctly and worried about it endlessly when my kids were smaller.  Here's a link with more info: www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.9f8c 7d6359e0e9bbbf30811060008a0c/
posted by ShaneThePain on Feb 27, 2007 at 07:32 PM
I disagree with beekeeper 110%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is never ever a reason not to have a child in a car seat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  They should have called 911, they would have had an ambulance there within 6 minutes. They decided to rush to the hospital speeding and running red lights instead. I have personally seen the damage done to kids by uncaring or negligent parents. It takes less then a minute to put a kid in a car seat. Requiring a car seat is not an extreme law!! I have never had to unbuckle a dead person, or take a dead baby out of a car seat. I have picked up way to many off the road however!  We need to prosecute parents that don't do the right thing. A $60 fine is way to little! Why do we require people to take a test to drive a car, but any idiot can have a child? If you see people driving with kids improperly restrained, it is your job as a responsible person to call 911 and report them! After mom and grandmother get out of jail then let them make the rounds talking about car seats.
posted by ChristineFroehlich on Feb 27, 2007 at 09:38 PM
Pain, I think you are right on on this issue. If someone can buckle themselves in, they can buckle in their kid to a car seat. Secondly, in a emergency it's best to call 911 from your car. With all the tragedy and accidents on the 202 that involved children in the last year. why would anyone take such a chance?
posted by babydoll on Feb 27, 2007 at 09:45 PM
I saw a young girl driving by Kmart the other day, and thought the infant was restrained, he/she was in the front seat, facing forward and the Mother was driving with one hand and bottle feeding it with the other.  I kick myself in the a** for not getting her license plate # and reporting her.  It happened so fast.  So, yes I think they should be reported.
posted by Colitas on Feb 27, 2007 at 09:53 PM
Does anyone know why their aren't any seat belts on school buses?  And what is your opinion on this Shane since you have seen the outcome of no seat belts?  And why isn't it illegal that all buses don't have seat belts when it is for everyone else?  When you have a baby, you can't take the baby home until you have a car seat.  Don't you think it might be helpful that not only do the hospitals check for a car seat but that it is put in correctly.   Especially for a new parent.
posted by beekeeper on Feb 27, 2007 at 10:09 PM
Shane, these two people are not "uncaring or negligent parents" - They were in a medical emergency. I agree, of course, that children should be in car seats. They can die without them. Yes. There is no doubt about that. But, please, 6 minutes and they would be ok with a 911 call? Imagine a Bear Valley resident, for example, to localize the story... Would they get full response in 6 minutes. If they hadn't made it to the hospital in time in the ambulance and the mother died instead of the child, we would all be saying: Why didn't she just have her mother drive her?? Negligent mother and grandmother in this situation is irrelevant.

On another note, I have an "aquaintence" who on a recent cross country road trip, kept her 7 month old strapped in the car seat the entire way. When it was time to breast feed, instead of having the driver pull the vehicle to side of the road, or, goodness sakes, "holding the baby" to feed him, she would, kid you not, get up in the back of the SUV so that she was nearly standing and feed the baby by standing ove him in his seat while the vehicle was in motion. I know this example is extreme, but it happens too. "Negligence" has its obverse.
posted by eekitsaspider on Feb 28, 2007 at 08:10 AM

Here is another question on this subject:

If the mother of the baby had enough time to call her mother to come over so she could take her to the hospital then why didn't she have time to call 911 or find a car seat? Just seems like there was alot of time wasted there and not enough time spent on thinking about the safety of her child...

posted by beekeeper on Feb 28, 2007 at 09:27 AM
"Mom, I am having an attack, can you come get me?"
"Sure, I'm on my way."
In the meantime, the mother is looking for the car seat to put the baby in. She is searching for it until the grandmother gets there. She is there now, and they panic and decide not to be negligent women and leave a baby home alone, or wait even LONGER for an ambulance, and just left.
We don't know the situation, maybe she didn't want to go in an ambulance? Cost? I really think that arresting these two women is very extreme. Put yourself in the situation. You can't find the car seat and you are beginning to fear for your own life? Would you think that if you tried to get to the hospital and lost your daughter's life on the way that you should be arrested? Would you really sit there and wait for an ambulance after your mother already showed up to take you? Are you really a negligent parent becuae the car seat wasn't available? It's not like she didn't own one. She just couldn't find it.
posted by eekitsaspider on Feb 28, 2007 at 10:05 AM

If I was in her shoes i would of called 911 and then my mother. And there is no way i would put an infant in a car without a carseat. My mom could of stayed there with the child while the ambulance took me to the hospital and i got the needed treatments. I have 3 children ranging from 15 years old to 7 years old and i have NEVER allowed them into a car without a carseat or a seatbelt, no matter what the situation.

And if cost was an issue i can understand that completly. But in an emergency i would not care about the cost i would only care about getting the needed help.

posted by beekeeper on Feb 28, 2007 at 10:48 AM
Nobody is saying that what the mother and grandmother did is 100% right. But the reality is that they are already paying a price. They are going to question themselves for the rest of their lives. I am just saying, that arresting these women is unjust. They made a mistake. And it is unfair to say that none of us wouldn't do the same in the situation. The mom could have died on the way to the hospital after waiting that long for the ambulance. None of these possibilities make it right. But arresting them? It's just my opinion, but it seems like the system is just going a little far.
posted by Colitas on Feb 28, 2007 at 10:48 AM

I do have to agree with beekeeper.  I am a parent and nothing means more to me than my children.  I would gladly give my life for thiers.  As I'm sure so would the mom and grandmother in the above story.  As they say hindsight is 20/20.  But what would we benefit from these women going to jail?  What would jail teach them or punish them that they are not doing to themselves now.  It was an emergency and sometimes everyone doesn't do the right thing.  They get scared, they get confused, and not all of us are good under pressure.  It's not like they had the car seat and didn't use it.  As a parent there have been times where my child has rode in another car and we forgot to get the seat out.  I do not think I am the only this has happen to.  I think the parents who don't restrain their children when they go to the store, or some trivial errand are worse than a parent reacting to an emotional emergency.  I too have taken my child to the hospital not in a car seat.  He had gotten bit by a friends chow/wolf mix when he was 4 years old.  We were coming from Green Street, so my son's face is bleeding profusely, screaming in pain and fear.  I jump in the car with my friend that is holding my son and we go to the hospital.  I didn't call 911, my son wasn't in a car seat but being held and comforted during the 3 minute ride to the hospital.  Should I be in jail?  Should the tax payers be paying for my stay because I am a danger to society?  Was I wrong, probably.   Should I be in jail, your call---the tax payers and law makers.  Child endangerment--Willful Child Endangerment--do we know the difference in these two charges.  Neglect?  There is a chance our children will get kidnapped or assaulted by a child molester, or get hit on their bike, or get a snake bite or broken bones playing a school sport----are we endangering our children or neglect, should we all go to jail?  Bakersfield has smog, smog is bad, we let children breathe that, we are endangering them.  Please, this is a very tragic accident---do we remember what an accident means before we start pointing fingers and suing everyone and their mother.  This is all just too much!!!-

 

posted by eekitsaspider on Feb 28, 2007 at 12:26 PM

I agree alot with what both beekeeper and colitas are saying. There alot of questions about the entire story but that will be left to the law to sort out and decide the fate of the mother and grandmother. I just hope that this story will get people to think twice before getting into a car with a child and not secureing them in a car seat or safety belt.

posted by ShaneThePain on Feb 28, 2007 at 06:22 PM

Why didn't they leave the baby with her other child and roommate? The baby died because both were negligent parents! They didn't live in Bear Valley they lived in Metro Bakersfield.

KGET news story posted today!

BAKERSFIELD - Two women -- accused in the no-child-safety-seat car crash death of a 4-month-old -- lied to investigators, according to reports filed in support of criminal charges against them.

Mother and daughter Brenda and Sandy Stockman left Sandy's 6-year-old with Sandy's ''live-in companion'' just before the accident, and could have left the baby, according to the reports. The reports identified the companion as Tanya Roscoe, but don't say what is meant by "live-in companion." The statement by the roommate directly contradicts statements by Brenda, 46, and Sandy, 26, who told officers they had no choice but to take the baby in the car without a safety seat.

The reports accompany misdemeanor charges filed against the two in court this afternoon. At that first hearing, Brenda pleaded not guilty to allegations of vehicular manslaughter and child cruelty. Sandy, accused only of child cruelty, has not been to court yet.

The report says the women were hastily arrested Monday because Brenda was considered a flight risk.

After the accident, the women told a compelling story. Earlier in the day, they said, Kayden's aunt took the baby to a doctor's appointment, and the child's car safety seat was inadvertently left in the aunt's car.

Brenda and Sandy said they were alone with the baby shortly before 8 p.m. when Sandy began having an asthma attack.

Sandy couldn't drive, the women said. They couldn't leave Kayden alone, they said.

So they took off for Memorial Hospital on 34th Street. Brenda drove the Toyota Rav-4 as Sandy held the baby in her lap in the back seat, a single safety belt around them both, the women said.

Brenda was flashing the car's lights and honking her horn as she raced to the hospital. On Chester Avenue, she ran a red light to turn left from southbound Chester onto eastbound Columbus Street, she said. The car was struck by a northbound pickup truck.

Sandy suffered a broken thumb. Brenda was thrown against the windshield and suffered a hairline hip fracture. The baby died at the hospital. The case became a hot topic in Bakersfield. Most callers to talk radio agreed that children need to be in safety seats. But if, for some reason, no seat is available and there is a medical emergency, what's a mother to do?

Now, police say the accident just didn't happen that way. The women could have left the baby with Sandy's roommate, but instead chose to take her on the high-speed run to the hospital, according to reports.

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