Doesnotgetit, I don't know Harvey Hall or the Chief.  And I don't know about that incident so I can't really comment.  If you don't want Hall ambulance to service Tehachapi then you need to look into changing EOA's for Tehachapi so another service can be brought in.  Or start your own city ambulance.  But nothing is going to change unless the citizens get involved and start looking into changes.  Start with your hospital.  The best ambulance service in the world isn't going to make much difference if the hospital can't service the communities needs.  You also need to help changes at the county level.  Demand response time changes so Hall has to add more ambulances so they don't face fines and possibly losing that area to another provider.  There are numerous ways to evoke change in the current service.   

Wow... what a thread.  Fill egos, half truths, misunderstandings, misinformation and lies (and I haven't even started writing yet). 

I'm employed as one of those so called "fire medics," the type many people are both fighting against and hoping for; I'm also employed in "The Rural Eastern Kern."   I don't even know where to begin with this thread.... I'd like to inform, maybe offer an opinion or two, but there are so many of you that are so "out-there" and uninfomed with your opinions and attitudes, I think it's beyond me to even try, but what the heck, here it goes:

Fact.... job priorities of a firefighter: life, then property.

Yeah, if there's a medical-aid call and there's no ambulance in sight, I'll treat my patient.... it's my job as a firefighter.  Being a paramedic gives me the ability to use ALS (advanced life support) procedures that go beyond the scope of BLS procedures, both being governed by law.   We'll we stay with the patient, render care until someone shows up to take over patient care and transport.... absolutely.  Can I offer ALS and BLS services in the same fashion as private ambulance? yes....without the transport capabilities.  We start IV's; push drugs; maintain and establish airways; put in chest tubes; defribrillate... we do the same things private ambulance medics do, and do you know what..... in the event you're needing some of these services, despite your local hospital being as busy or small as it is and arrival of the amublance is minutes out, we can render time sensitive care that can save and prolong life.... it's happened time and time again in the city where I work, where the nearest hospital (YOUR hospital) is about 40 minutes away.  Think about it.... if you had a condition that was life threatening, but reverseable by something I can do, something only a medic can do, and the next medic is 2-3 minutes out, (and time counted here....), wouldn't you want me there to do it?  If it were me... my daughter... my uncle or friend needing the service.... and they were laying there, near death... I'd want  someone there that could make the difference... hell yes.

I had a call six months ago that changed the life of two men: mine and my patient's.  In a nutshell, we arrived to this mans house and he was clinically dead.  We arrived shortly before the ambulance.  We started care, said ambulance crew showed up and we worked together to get pulses back.  A helicopter ride and a 3 week stay yielded an elderly gentleman that enjoyed another Christmas with his family and a visit to our station thanking us for being a part of his survival.  True story.  Did we save him?  We (with god's grace...) helped.  Would the 1 or two minutes time difference between our on scene time and the ambulance crew's arrival time made the life and death difference... I don't know, but I would like to think it helped.  Did the ambulance crew help with this mans survival?  YES... we both worked together as a TEAM, it was a great call and those involved will be touched by its outcome for life; this man lived in part to our teamwork and combined efforts.  I't said that for each minute a person is in cardiac arrest, in a fatal correctable heart rhythm, chances of survival decease by 10% (... or something like that... ).  Given this information, I'd like to think we contributed to a happy holiday gathering that held more meaning for those involved and I like to think that getting ALS care to this clinically dead man when we did helped save his life.  My point in all this: more medics is good.

To continue my rant, I guess the following question may then be begged:  are "fire" services to other people "tied up" when we're rendering patient care?  You bet, services are tied up, and the tying up of services will continue during that call until the transfer of patient care has been made; we can't be in two places at once and we can't leave a patient to their own demise... it's basically the law.  Does this interfer with my "primary mission"  to "fight fire"  Funny, last I heard, saving life IS my primary mission; fighting fires is secondary..... it's ALWAYS been that way; this priority will never change.  If I am in a helicopter dropping water on a fire and we get a call to pick up a firefighter that has succombed to some injury... we drop what we're doing (no pun intended) and go to his/her aid.  If I'm fighting a structure fire and we get some word that there's someone inside that needs rescuing... tactics and strategies are changed to make the resuce of the person happen; stopping the fire becomes secondary, saving life, any life, becomes the priority.  When that person is removed, resources are allocated to evaluate and treat that person.  We always work on the premise that life is more valuable than property.  Message: patients first.   

This happens for ALS calls (advanced life support); BLS calls; (... be that what it is, Tehachapi Hosp, or AV or Lancaster, whomever is closest and most appropirate); fires; whatever....  If we get called to some playground, and Jimmy falls down hurting his elbow.... we're tied up until we can speak to his guardians (treatment and transport will be done if contact with the guardian is unavailable, based on implied consent).  Fire gets tied up for this and many other things, but the beauty is we have back-up plans that include nest closest in response and mutual aid responsess; so, the situation is eventually mitigated.  Message: when we get tied up, someone else hops in to pick up the slack.     

Opionion... fire-medics.... helicopters...

If a patient is in cardiac arrest, or some trauma, or some weird obstetric situation (like an eclampsic-type seizure).... jeeze, wouldn't YOU want someone who is able to do some advanced stuff until someone else can take over and transport?  Wouldn't it be cool to have someone there that can maybe administer a medication or procedure that can save the day, I mean, if it were you on the ground or on the couch, dying?  This is basically what we do... like the Hall crews (especially in their absence...) we treat patients and try to improve their conditions; with regards to medicine.... our job and credentials are the same.  EMT's and EMT-P's (P... paramedic...) hop through the same hoops to get where they are at.... nationally recognized curriculum and testing.... state and local certification to follow.... it's the same between us.  The difference is that most fire departments in the Kern County region do not have ALS first responder (fire medic) capabilities/programs and we don't transport   (.... yet      :)      ) ;  most private ambualnce crews don't run into burning buildings, cut open cars, or mitigate hazardous materials incidents.  As far as on-scene medical care is concerned; we both provide the service.  They transport a lot and have a lot of patient care time, but I've seen some good medics on both sides of the fence... fire and private ambulance... and I've also seen some pretty crappy care done by private ambulance, by burn-outs and people with no experience, coming directly from school.  I've seen care provieded by the privates that  have compelled me to "fly" paper for to local EMS to make a complaint, and it takes a lot for me to consider that.  The arguement that fire and ambulance are different when it comes to patient care is horsecrap; we both to the job.  The difference comes in when either one is trying to make their point.  Fire states they have a vested interest in the particular community they serve, whereas private ambulance states they have more patient experience; there's some truth in both, but I believe the ulitmate truth is this: it's better to have 2 medics on scene than one, and it's better to have one medic on scene than none.  Don't you agree?

As for helicopters....sure, it's been argued that 408 should be able to carry medics, the opposite (no medic) has also been argued, with the primary caveat being as long as it doesn't interfere with their primary mission.  Observation: the same arguement has been lamented with regards to fire first responders.  Fire helicopters fight fire; carry suppression crews and equipment, but they also provide other important capabilites that people overlook..... expensive upkeep, hoist capabilities, fast transport times.  If I'm already paying for a helicopter via taxes.... and a call busts out, with all the private helicopters unavailable... doing their thing (interfacility transports and emergent transporst..., then...) why not use County's helicopter if it's just sitting there on the pad?  Why not staff it with a medic?  The way the fire service works, if a resource is dedicated to an incident... that resource basically stays dedicated.  In the case of 408, if they were dedicated to.... let's say the "Day Fire."  The only time they would be pulled from their duty is if something really whacky happened, like a cardiac arrest suffered by a firefighter on top of a ridge.  It takes time to secure equiment on the ship...., to cut them from their task if they were in mid-air.  The practicality of their mission with regards to another emergent situation is typically mute... or push... all bets off; they'll stay doing what their tasked to do; other resources will be called before 408 would be considered for diversion from their tasked duty.  Given if there's no fire... and they're happily sitting on their pad...  well, my opinioin is that they're another county resource that can be utilized in extreme situations; funny thing is... they've been used for exactly this a few times already.

Suppose you drive "the canyon" and take a plunge down the side.... wouldn't it be better to have a helicopter show up with a medic, than an EMT?  I don't know what your response is, but if it were my kid at the bottom of the canyon, I'd want a medic... and a helicopter with hoist capabilities.  We've got 408 (and maybe another helicopter on line sometime soon...) let's get a medic on there and use it, if it's there....

As stated before, fire's mission has always been save life (first) save property (last)... that's pretty basic.  Will resources be tied up if I'm sitting with a patient that I helped out of a fatal heart rhythm by pushing some drug... sure, but who cares?  This person may have died had I not been there to intervene.  Last time I checked, someones life is more precious than some house or RV or car burning down, right?  Sure you need a better hospital, sure you need two ambulances in town.  Iin my opinion, having fire medics just improves your care all around, and I don't understand the arguement against it; we're a buffer... a check and balance when you're not entirely with it and nearly, on occasion, dead.  We provide emergent, ALS care, when the ambulance is around the corner, we help them expidiate your care when they arrive first.  We bounce stuff off the private ambulance crews heads... they bounce stuff off of us, we help each other.  Last word on helicopters:  they're good too (and better staffed with medics).  It's ultimately better if you let said helicopter transport emergent patients when needed.  This is especially true when your life depends on that ride.... don't scoff, it's money well spent if it's YOU laying prone on the bird being flown to KMC or Loma Linda..

 A final note...

Pine Mt. needs dedicated medics.

Funny, when Cal City started their First Responder program, there was only one ambulance (literally) in town.  Funny still, when perceived competition to up the level of care to those living in the city was initiated by then Chief Mike Antonucci, Hall Ambulance responded by finally placing the second ambulance in town... shocker.  Same thing happened when the need for a helicopter in the Eastern Kern was noted.  A note to Mercy Air yielded requesting they place a helicopter in the area (this before Cal City started theirs...) yielded a canned response basically stating that a helicopter business couldn't be supported by calls in the Eastern Kern.  Funny again, Mercy showed up as Cal City's helicopter transport business opened it's doors.... then came MedEvac 1 some months later....  Cause and effect... ego and result....competiiton and percieved market loss=helicopter or ambulance or... whatever. 

If and when KCFD decides to get medics to its remote stations, including PIne Mt., rest assured you'll get your second ambulance.  Finally, if you get that second ambulance... I suggest you keep your fire medic there... transport times are long and incidents on the 5 are frequent enough to leave your post empty on occasion... which is exactly why you should have a fire medic there... and keep him/her there for the unforseeable future.  Just a suggestion....  

 OMG!!! The last thing anyone needs are fire medics... Get real.

To happyguy,

     That Mercy copter is now able to run because they had to close up shop in Ventura. Secondly, the Cal City copter is funded by the taxpayes AND medical insurance. You also seem to have this pipe dream that ff medics will stay in their given area and just give medical aid. WRONG! They have to transport as well. And that whole song and dance about "life, then property". Total BS bro. Where are you from?!? If there was a call for a medical aid and a fire call went out in the same area, that fire resource will go to the fire. You think I am wrong, PROVE IT! If there is a burn victim at a fire, the engine will put out the fire before they treat the victim. You still think I'm wrong, PROVE IT! In both cases, the pt will have to wait for a, you guessed it, an AMBULANCE. Everyone here thinks that more medics are the answer. You are all wrong. If you put medics on the engines, all you are going to have are fire engines and ambulances taking up space at the ER. And when that fire resource is stuck on scene or transporting to the ER, other resources will have to move up to take its place. Just like the ambulances do. So now, you might have a fire engine and an ambulance both responding from Mojave. Also, ff paramedics can bill you for their medical services. Your tax dollars only cover fire, not medical.

 Wow!  FFmedic has some real anger issues!  Maybe a little Prozac would help!  And when did "fire resources" transport pts?   FF/Medics don't have to transport--they just give report and transfer care to the ambu medic (which hopefully won't be you) and the ambu medic transports in.  Only on transports requiring two medics does the ff/medic go in.

Fire dept's first priority is saving lives, not property. Ever think YOU have it all wrong?  PROVE IT?!?!?! You sound like a 8 year old school yard bully. GROW UP! CHANGE IS INEVITABLE! Change can be good!  And what fire depts in California  bill you for their medical services when they do not transport you?

Please, get some counseling.  You only go around once in life and to have such an anger issue and chip on your shoulder can affect your whole outlook on life.  As you know who said--"why can't we all get along?"

 Awsmom- I read this and didn't even think FFMedic warranted a response. Obviously any person with a brain reading this knows what he is saying isn't true. That firefighters wouldn't stop putting out a fire to help a burn victim! Are you kidding me??  Then there was this comment....If there was a call for a medical aid and a fire call went out in the same area, that fire resource will go to the fire. You think I am wrong, PROVE IT! ...... I've said it once and I'll say it again. When was the last time a paramedic put out a fire? They don't.  Think I'm wrong?? PROVE IT!  Of course if there is a fire the firefighters would respond to it and let the ambulance take the medical aid. Have a better idea??

Oh, and for the record ffmedicsuck you are not fooling anyone. You've been here before, and are spouting off the same ol' crap.  Get a life........... or better yet go SAVE ONE!

 awsmom and countygirl, this guy does not warrant a response.  Besides who goes back to a blog that is a year old and starts a 'flame war'?  Certainly as awsmom stated this person needs a mental health check.  And, if he is serving the public as any kind of medic this is a very scary situation.  He should not be inflicted on the public.