NMedic you started the personal attacks when you made your post about fire medics. What goes around, comes around!

"LA county and city fire is a joke." - NMedic

"Yeah, I am sure you have seen Hall medics have trouble intubating and starting IV's.  But I bet their skill level will out surpass any fire medic" - NMedic

NMedic said:

"The more you use your skills the better you will be.  It is liking saying you would rather have a high school baseball  player on your team versus a pro"

So does that mean that because you have earned your paramedic license that you automatically use your skills more than fire medics? Last I checked, all of our medics have worked many years with ambulance companies and still use their skills every day that they are on duty. The comparison between high school baseball players vs pro is obviously way off base! (pun intended)

NMedic said:

"Do I think Medical and Fire should stay separate?  Heck ya I do.  They are 2 different jobs.  It is like having Police respond to fires."

The difference is that the medical field is not trained to respond to fires, but firefighters are trained to respond to medical calls. They work together doing the same job everyday. Police are not trained for firefighting, so again this is another bad comparison.

For someone who talks an awful lot about doing his research, you sure don't seem to know very much on this subject.

Saying  any paramedic is better then a fire medic, because he/she runs more calls is just crazy. Bad medics get worst as they go. I haven't "practiced" as a paramedic for more then 7 years, but I put my skills up against many Hall medics. Look at the Hall Medic that just transferred out of Tehachapi. 20 minute on scene times less then a block from the hospital,  LIDOCAINE on a patient with PVC's with a heart rate of 58,  ECT, ECT.  He has ran a lot of calls but he is still no good.

Doesn't LA County Squad 129 run 3,000 calls a year? They must be the best in the world if  we use NMedic's  scale.

Ok, alot of comments taken out of context (again, not surprising). As for making it personal, I never said you were a bad medic.  That would be personal.  I said LA county/city has a bad reputation as medics.  Never once did I single one out.  Yes, LA county/city runs a lot of calls a year but they don't get much practice of their skils because of their protocols.  I believe I did post a link to LA protcols in an earlier post. 

 As for fire vs police, I would like to mention that police officers are trained as first responders on up to EMT-B (And BFDfirefighter, if you are going to quote me please you the entire anology reference).  Do you want them to treat you?  They have the same medical trainging as firefighters.  I am sure the answer is no, because that isn't their job.  And by your own statement of...

        & nbsp;      The difference is that the medical field is not trained to respond to fires, but firefighters are trained to respond to medical calls. They work together doing the same job everyday. Police are not trained for firefighting, so again this is another bad comparison.

then when firefighters are trained as paarmedics than they will be trained to fight fires as well, so ergo the medical field will be trained to fight fires (and no, they don't do the same job everyday, that part isn't going to fly).  I don't know about you, but I don't want a conflict of interest between my public safety agenices.  If you fight and prevent fires then do that, if you keep the peace for the community then do that, and if you treat medical emergencies than do that.  As you are also well informed, as by your above statement (sarcasm intended) then you know that some states/counties run their EMS as part of law enforcement.  Do you agree with that combo?  Should police be sent on every medical call to assist?  Heck, no!  Again a different job.  I, again, stand by my analogy.   

If you haven't practiced your skills for seven years, than yeah, I bet I could out intubate you.  Now if it came to fire, you would probably outdo me as I haven't worked for a company for at least 3 years.  Do I agree that the Hall medic shouldn't have used Lidocaine.  If the situation is as you described it then no, not at that heart rate.  But as I wasn't onscene I am not going to debate that call with you.  It is always easy to be a "couch" paamedic.  You are taking the wrong tack.  I never said that all Hall paramedics are the epitome of how paramedics should be (by the way anonymous you get more credit if you actually post under your name, as of right now I am going to have to assume that you are a KCFD F/F who has a personal issue with Hall or private companies in general).  I merely made mention that studies have proven that paramedics (whether they be private or public) who use their skills more are better.  Its a fact.  It is the same thing, the more experience, usually the better skill.  Do you want a cardiologists who has only done a cardiac bypass a few times or one who has done it numerous times?  Now, I want to mention that by that anology I am not saying all new cardiologists are bad.  I just want to get that out the way before someone takes that out of context.   I decided to use another analogy just to help get that point across.

Now, some paramedics are going to suck no matter what.  I am sure it is the same for some of you, there are  fire fighters you have come across in your line of work that just suck.  Some you want in the building with you and some you don't.  But I am sure if you had to pick between a more experienced fire figher vs a limited experience firefighter than you wold want the more experienced one. 

If you want to make it personal, by all means go ahead.  But I believe I will get my point across better by citing facts, posting links, and basing statements off my own experience.  Again, go ahead and slam me.  It doesn't hurt me or deter me from making my posts.  In fact it just makes me more determined.  In fact, why are you bothering with me?  Shouldn't you be out spouting 'propaganda' for ALS fire?  See how easy that was to say.  I don't have to prove my statement or care that it doesn't support my cause.  That is how you are coming across to me.  Instead of bashing me, why don't you put some facts up here.  Support or prove your own cause.  As for me,  I will continue to post.  Feel free to make more lame attempts to discredit.  I enjoy your feeble attempts.  And I am sure, by this closing statement that their will be more.....      &nbs p;

Oh, and coolfire I will try to find that link.  I did try click on the link in an earlier post but it wouldn't come up.  I do want to be as informed as I possibly can.  Thanks for reminding me about it.

I think many of you are missing NMedic original point, what good does it do for us in Tehachapi if we do not have a good hospital to take injured people to? And only have one ambulance (maybe two) available for transport.  Fire medics will still have to stay with the patient until transport is available, thus placing that engine unavailable for a response, thus tying up manpower and resources.  Not all 911 calls are true emergencies.  The poor or those with out medical insurance tend to use it for their medical care.  Calls come in for a sick person (flu), ill person, etc.  These calls require the medic, fire personnel to treat this as an emergency and provide adequate medical care until transported to a hospital.  Fire nor medics cannot assume that this is a simple cold or flu; they must act in accordance with local (county EMS protocols).  Yes, fire/medics can provide ALS and stay with the patient until transport is available. Which is good . What I feel needs to be done is a comprehensive study on what the cost will be to the county fire such as, equipment, manpower, salary increase (paramedic pay), to the amount of ALS incidents they respond to.  I am against any tax increase, be it for a private company or a county entity.  The County Board of Supervisors need to really look at how EMS care is provide in this county compared with other counties of comparable demographics.  Maybe additional ambulance contractors will force Hall Ambulance to provide additional  units.  Competition is the key in the private sector.

Remember we need additional ambulances up here and the need for a GOOD HOSPITAL.  The current hospital care speaks for itself. (did we not vote to have a increase on our property tax to improve our hospital several years ago?)

Nmedic again gets his facts wrong. Police do not have the same medical training as firefighters. Being trained as a first responder and being EMT combitube and defib trained are two totally different things. Very few police officers are EMT trained.

As for your analogies, there was no point in stating the entire quote again, as they didn't make since in the first place. Making a reference to high school vs. pro ball players when comparing ambulance vs. fire is just rediculous. You are right when it comes to saying that medical and fire don't do the same job everyday.  Paramedics definitely don't do the same job as firefighters. What I meant was that fire medics do the same job as ambulance paramedics everyday. There is no disputing that. When the ambulance paramedic requests help, the fire medic will use Halls equipment and assist with any ALS treatment.

I don't understand why someone would be against the fire department having paramedics. Nobody is saying that the fire department wants to take Halls jobs away or even take over treatment. A fire medic would just be a means to start earlier ALS intervention.  I know this doesn't solve the problem with the hospital but it definitely increases survivability on critical patients. The fire department is going to respond to a 911 call and most likely be first on scene. Wouldn't you rather have a paramedic on the rig over an EMT? 

I am not a county firefighter, but I definitely would support County fire medics. I know that if the need ever arises where I will have to call 911, I want a paramdec on scene as soon as possible, Hall or KCFD makes no difference as long as they can provide the best treatment possible.

Yes, I did vote down the road tax.  We have a tax on gasoline that is suppose to go to roads.  I did vote yes  twice on the hospital tax and look what it has done for us to this point, nothing.  I do agree that service will cost us money, be it taxes or other fees (a hidden tax), but before we tax ourselves to death, lets look at government waste first and see what comes up.  As for the private company, no on any tax increase for them (Hall Ambulance). Let’s see if another private ambulance company is willing to provide additional services.  I agree money will be the issue. How well will it will sell is another.