You guys are great.  When people claim to believe in God, you berate them as hypocrites who only talk without action.  After insisting that you respect the exercise of personal "spirituality", but not "church dogma", you'll often ask the Christian for some personal anecdote that offers "proof" of their beliefs.

Then when one relates a detailed, deeply intense religious experience where he was forced to confront the meaning of his faith, he is ridiculed.  Rather than showing respect or even neutral agnosticism, he is attacked and his story held up as evidence of a deranged mind.

Of course we know that any similar story told by a Native American and set in a sweat lodge would be treated at least with respect if not as revealed wisdom, but what makes oohchild's response even more ironic is her appeal to the authority of - all things - "traditional Catholic doctrine"! 

Great job, Pope Oohchild!  I look forward to your next proclaimation ex cathedra!

While Jindal's name is still being bantered about in certain conservative circles, recent revelations about his beliefs should make anyone reconsider him for the VEEP spot. He's too vulnurable on these issues. First it was the exorcism claim, and how it flies in the face of traditional Catholic doctrine. Now this:

http://www.au.org/site/News...

"Gov. Bobby Jindal this week signed the legislation (SB 733), which allows teachers to use “supplemental materials” when discussing evolution. The measure was pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum and the Discovery Institute, two Religious Right groups that advocate creationist concepts, and is widely seen as an effort to water down instruction about evolution.

“I am very disappointed that Gov. Jindal signed this unwise and unnecessary measure,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director. “Louisiana has a long and unfortunate history of trying to substitute dogma for science in public school classrooms. Let me state clearly and upfront that any attempts to use this law to sneak religion into public schools through the back door will not be tolerated.”

Now I'm hearing some folks throw out Tim Pawlenty's name as a possible running mate for McCain. He's the Governor of Minnesota. Let's see what shakes out of his tree.

Yep, I mentioned Clark in my OP. I really like him, too. I had hoped he would run for president this year, but I think he got a taste of what it's like in 2004 & decided it wasn't worth it.

Interesting, Bill richardson was so close to Hillary Clinton,  trying for that VP spot, before he switched to Obama, hmm, maybe people just think he goes along with whoever he thinks can advance his political career, perhaps he is not the best choice, how about Wesley Clark?,  he looks good, I think a military man would help Obama,

Actually, we have friends in NM who are well acquainted with Richardson. From the stories they've told me (they're progressives, too) I don't think he's the right man for the job.

I'll just leave it at that.

How about Governer Bill Richardson?, shown here with his hand over his heart during the national anthem?,  I think he would be a good choice,

 “Former Sens. John Edwards and Sam Nunn are on a list of potential running mates for Democrat Barack Obama, a congresswoman said Thursday, one day after she met with the team Obama has reviewing possible candidates."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn....

I have been an Edwards supporter for years. I would love an Obama/Edwards ticket!

Biden would be good for that position, or Supreme Court Justice. 

I just read Tim Russert's last interview, & he says Biden & Lindsay Graham are scheduled for this week's show. He called them both "short list" candidates. I wonder who'll get to host Meet The Press, now?

Sad about Tim. Only 58 years old.

McCain needs to pick someone young and religious... But bobby Jindal is too you and too religious... Would actually like to see him pick Huckabee, I liked Huckabee's fair tax plan.

 Obama can't pick Hillary... You can have your VP on tape saying that she is ready to be President and your Opponent is ready to be president, but Obama has only a speech in 2002.  That was her fault and bad strategy on her part.

Who should he pick, Biden would be a good choice if it wasn't for his plagiarism charge (Reason he dropped out of the race in 1980's)  Sam Nunn would be a good choice, as would Jim Webb or Tom Kaine from Virginia.

No matter who they pick, I am voting for Obama. 

1. He has supported Air Traffic Controllers while in the Senate.

2. He wants us out of Iraq, and I don't want my brother to have to go back for a third tour.

3. McCain scares me that he doesn;t have command of the basic facts of his area of alleged strengths.

4. This country can't afford even afford one more year of republican leadership.

Have you heard the latest about Bobby Jindal? He actually believes in exorcism?

http://www.huffingtonpost.c...

Now as an atheist, I have to overlook a lot of mysterious woo-woo when looking at political candidates. I even accept the LDS as electable politicians, even though the whole "Jesus took a detour to North America to visit the Jews" story is a bit much. But I really thought stuff like this would disqualify someone for VEEP. I'd be afraid he'd try to use a Ouija board to decide whether or not to invade Iran!

It's not looking too good for Hillary as VEEP. I hope she captures the Senate Majority spot. I think she'd be terrific there!

Starbucks...  I agree there is good to be learned from the Bible..and some evil.  I read it a couple years ago, and as with all books I read, I take what works for me and I leave the rest.  You should try reading the Dali Lama some time. There is good to learn from his teachings as well.  You don't have to believe everything e.g. reincarnation...  I certainly don't, I think you can learn much good from most spiritual books.

Yes, Oochild and I are fully aware of the fact that the Orion space program was not fully funded and takes a back seat to military programs when it comes to funding.  Trust me...when it's your livelihood, you tend to make it your business to know these things.

Regardless of political/religious beliefs, I think most would help each other in a time of need.  We wouldn't care about political issues if one of us needed the help of the other.  That's the crazy thing about people, if they disagree with each other, they will kill each other in order to have the world THEIR OWN WAY.   But, if a child of your enemy was abandoned, you would save her, or if your enemy asked for water, while he lay dying, you would give it to him.   Funny how the minds and hearts of people work huh?

I simply care about the welfare and the freedom of all Americans, because I have fought to have it MY WAY in the past and it was wrong, I hurt people needlessly, I understand that.   Thus, I hope you are telling me the truth when you say that you Live and let Live.  The world would certainly be a better place if that were true of everyone.

Great links you posted here oohchild, Thanks, and Sparks I actually agree with most everything you say, Gee, we cant agree on everything!, I am a live and let live kind of person, but its not my Bible, its everyones who want to learn the good from it, maybe not literally in some parts, but, the Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, type stuff, is all good,

Indeed I do know where our bread and butter comes from.  

Well, I would vote for you Starbucks for my own selfish reasons,  IF you are against the Iraq War, pro Universal Health Care, if you take back the tax cut Bush gave the very rich and focus on helping the middle class, AND if you were for all people living as they want instead of how your Bible tells them to.

You see...it's a trade off for me...  I would rather lose our income than for another Bush/McCain to live in the White House.

I suggest you go here:

http://www.popularmechanics...

and here:

http://www.badastronomy.com...

to find out why you're wrong about McCain, and what Obama & Clinton are really saying right now about our space program. As I said, we really don't know & won't know until we see the first budget after the election. It's clear none of the candidates feel we can afford to be generous with NASA, it's just a question of where their priorities fall.

Obama keeps changing his mind about NASA?, in one month?, 

 *rolls eyes* 

perhaps you can provide a link to that?, so how much is he going to cut NASA funding?, thats web page was great, it details up to date progress in development  work,  I think NASA is inspirational, unlike Barrack,