Yup-I like the eggs and tomatoes idea too.Wouldn't it be nice if crime victims actually had a chance to do that for "Crime Prevention Week" or something?Sometimes the old fashioned ways seem better!Maybe as part of alternative sentencing....

Nah... the old fashion way didn't work any better, and I like the idea that we are more civilized today.   It is fun talking about it though... lol

Come on sparks don't rain on our parade lol...............

Sure awsmom - we get to assume anything we want!!  Evidence?  We don't need no steeenking evidence....

But if the jail needs expanding, maybe the razor wire enclosure the Art Center left could be used...it looks the part.

Gube, you and Ginger are way too excited about this hanging boys by the balls thing... it's getting scary.   I almost feel as if I have to let PD slap me back for thinking you two were just playing around....   Don't make me eat crow...it tastes nasty... lol

PD-you're making assumptions regarding evidence and fair trial.Yes,I'm just playing around,but in my picture,these participants had of course had all of the pertinent evidence presented and had been found guilty.Maybe TAC put the wire up because they were afraid that someone would break in and steal something.Apparently a valid concern.They shouldn't have to do that,and I don't seriously think that we should hang the little so and sos by any body parts that they may or may not have,but there are few deterrents to crime anymore,and it shows in the attitudes and behaviors of criminals.

Gee Sparks-just when I was going to ask you to document the occasion with some of your artwork!

Gube-grab the umbrella-we've been rained out!

TAC didn't put the razor wire up.  It was put up when the facility was used by Sundt for some wind turbine purpose.  TAC just didn't bother to remove the ugliness when they moved in, which I've always found ironic for an art center.  Somehow every other gallery I've gone to, including ones with walls full of art selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars have managed to maintain security systems that don't make their premises look like a World War I battleground....

As for deterrents to crime, we've got over 1% of the population locked up - and a much higher proportion than that of young men, who would be the obvious targets of your proposed (post fair trial, of course)  testicle hanging.  How much deterrence do you want?

Maybe we're doing something else wrong...

PD- I guess that it's an interpretation issue-I see that as evidence that our current method of incarceration is not a deterrent to many who choose to commit crimes.I think that we are doing many things wrong related to the issue.

I think that many of the related aspects can't be easily legislated away-home issues,poverty,unemployment,addictions.All of those factors have an effect on crime.But-sooner or later,the individual has to make the choice,out of his or her own free will,to CHOOSE to commit the crime or not.I feel that if there were stronger deterrents than we offer,there would be more people who would  just say "No".Most law-abiding people see incarceration as a choice they want to avoid,and for many,that works.Many repeat-offenders(repeatedly caught after what is often many more crimes)don't see it that way.For many,life inside is a break from the responsibilities on the outside and a time to hang with friends.No worries about job,rent,bills,relationship hassles,they get medical,food,get to work-out and watch TV."Going away" for a while is no big deal to many people,and therefore not a deterrent to them.

Would the fear of incarceration be enough to convince me to choose not to commit a crime?Sure.Those who have decided that that constitutes punishment?Apparently.That 1% of the population that is locked up?Obviously not.So how much deterrence do I want?Whatever it takes to make criminals choose to not commit the crime.I have watched neighbors,friends and family choose crime/incarceration.I know their lame excuses.I believe that if life was substantially less comfortable on the inside,they might choose to stay out.Hard unpaid labor to compensate for their cost to the state?Lack of perks?Tough conditions?

Do I think that lynching is really the answer?"No".We have the death penalty,and it doesn't seem to deter many.

I agree that high recidivism rates indicate that imprisonment is not an adequate deterrent for many people.  I argue that the the high lock-up rate works against its deterrent purpose.   As more and more of one's friends and family members enter the system, its fear-inducing power is reduced. The banality of the system works against it.  This tool. like others, are dulled by over-use.

I have experienced this in a minor way.  I was visiting prison in a charitable service capacity and the first time I entered, I was intimidated by the screening process with its multiple searches and levels of scrutiny I had to undergo.  After a few times, it became commonplace.  After a few more times, it ceased to bother me. 

What implications does that have for a civilian society more and more circumscribed by surveillance cameras, metal detectors, searches, and checkpoints - or even razor wire on downtown commercial lots in small-town Tehachapi?  No good ones, I'm afraid.

PD-I'm not sure that it's not just the effect of being from a lifestyle/social group that accepts and endorses criminal behavior.They often not only don't fear the system,they use it to their benefit.Sure,if the first time someone gets locked up,they realize that nothing bad is really going to happen to them,they're more likely to re-offend,especially if they're 'connected". I agree that the tool is"dulled".That's why I feel that it needs to be more unpleasant.So that they will fear it again.I don't think that locking them up less is really going to cause them to commit less crime though. 

Now an interesting question might be-Did your familiarity with the intake process make you start considering criminal activity due to less fear of the institution?

The implication to me,is that there are dangerous people around us that would like to harm us and that people are (rightly) afraid and are taking the precautions available to them to protect themselves and their property and sometimes us.In the old days,people often carried guns for protection instead.Now it's generally only the criminals doing that.Perhaps in those days,criminals didn't always get a chance to present evidence,have a fair trial,and file appeals.Think about it though,when was the last time that crime victims had those chances before the crimes were commited towards them.

I certainly don't have anything against yanking out the cable tv, the weight rooms, or other things often cited as prison perks.  I wouldn't be surprised if correctional officers see the TV as helpful to their jobs, though - it isn't only small children who can use the electronic babysitter.  If that is what you mean by making it less pleasant, then I've no problem.

But how pleasant can those things make that situation?

Yes, we need prisons, and more of them than I'd like, for sure.  But we don't need to be locking up every meth-loser and two-bit hood who would benefit from 30 days hard labor either.  And reforming California's concealed carry laws, so that every armed robber at the 7-11 counter could expect the guy coming out of the bathroom to be packing would help too.

But we've become a more and more subservient and less responsible society across the board, always insisting of being treated liked children. Discipline for children often includes a lot of time-outs, so, along with our pre-work drug tests, our electronically surveilled communications, our arbitrary judicial rulings,  our searches, checkpoints,  and warning labels, we get what we should expect.

Maybe if the States made prison a little less of a comfort then repeat offenders may think twice about going back in...I say pull the plug on the t.v.'s, computers,and the air conditioning.. And getting educated in prison needs to stop and that money being used needs to be sent to the schools. Prison seems a little too comfortable in my opinion... 

I don't know about yanking education...education is reform and I would rather people in prison learn something good,, other than getting back out and doing the same things again. However, Eek has a point, prison life shouldn't be comfortable.  I would like to see longer sentencing and more prisons, but why can't hey build them in the middle of the desert like AZ does?

All this talk about how comfortable prison is...is it coming from folks who have lived there?  It doesn't look comfortable to me.

As for education, we should be so lucky if all the prisoners got educated.  Fat chance of that.

If you have worked at a prison you understand or even visited one.