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Freedom of speech/religion
I read and article in the Californian of a teacher in Mission Viejo who is getting sued by a student. It seems the teacher, James Corbett a history or social studies teacher of 19 years, likes to let his students know that he thinks Christians are just plain wrong. He was taped lecturing his students to "take off your Jesus glasses and see the truth". The student got offended and has files a law suit on the teacher for violation of the First amendment to the Constitution. That one says that the state cannot back a religion but neither can it be against a religion. Now put this in the context of the recent turmoil in Kern County Board of Education where a Board member wanted to put up posters quoting the national motto "In God We Trust". There were quite a few people who thought that Board member was promoting Christianity. Now I wonder what those folks would think of Teacher James Corbett in their School System. A teacher does have freedom of speech but in the classroom that speech should not include personal bias. A teacher does influence the future but so does a preacher. I have had atheists for teachers and I disregarded those teachings, those classes were harder for me because I caught myself editing what the teacher was teaching. I would like to hear the views of Liberals (you know who you are - you can't play baseball because youd would have to run to the right). 125 comments from 20 users
posted by
christibdce
on Dec 17, 2007 at 12:29 PM
Sorry, I'm not the Liberal that you're asking for, lol. I just wanted to mention how great it is to see a Christian stand up for what is right in this area. It's wrong to allow people to pound Christianity "officially," just as it's wrong for anyone representing the state to "officially" promote Christianity. That's according to the Law, of course, not necessarily my personal opinion. Yes, we Christians are certainly capable of thinking objectively and critically. A lot of people don't seem to believe that, or they don't care, or they simply think we will "turn the other cheek" every time. Hey, Jesus got mad when it was appropriate. Christians, defend your rights as vigorously as you would defend someone else's (and as far as it is right to do so, according to Christ's teachings). posted by
madkow2747
on Dec 17, 2007 at 01:26 PM
I'm not your liberal either, but I'd tell that student to "grow up". This teacher teaches an AP class, which means it's voluntary. A student's right to religion does not trump a teacher's right to free speech when that student is voluntarily in that class. Is it really necessary to remove a teacher that has an excellent record (according to the LA Times) because some students were offended by what he had to say? I don't think it's right to hang that over the heads of all teachers-- if you say something offensive, you're going to be booted. (Like it or not, most subjects are not objective. History is all about perspective. And Christians don't exactly have the greatest track record, historically speaking.) It wouldn't surprise me if the students that are so horribly offended are the type of students that refuse to listen to what the teacher is really saying, frustrating the teacher into saying more shocking things. I have seen it many times in classes and it's just outright annoying to be in class with students like that.Sorry if that's just a nasty jumble of thoughts- I was so annoyed I couldn't quite make them coherent. posted by
gube
on Dec 17, 2007 at 01:48 PM
I think a teacher should keep his personal religious views out of the classroom. If he believes in god or not should never be the issue. The teacher should be teaching the facts not his beliefs.I don't think god should be in the schools. I really haven't followed the ''in god we trust '' issue in Bakersfield but if it was not for religious reasons then why else would they fight to have it in all the classrooms. And wasn't the school board member also a minister.God belongs in church not schools. posted by
Vader
on Dec 17, 2007 at 02:04 PM
A teacher’s job is to be objective and try help students gain perspective. You can't teach history without delving into religion so it's important that teachers give an unbiased lesson regardless of religious or non-religious affiliation. When I was teaching reformation, I went over how Protestant denominations were formed from their separation from the Catholic Church. I talked about how much bloodshed was waged against the people in posted by
robertcarter
on Dec 17, 2007 at 04:42 PM
Hey madkow2747 - you sound like the liberal I was looking for. So that it is it? Free speech wins over not speaking against any religion. Good to know. But what about that pesky amendment that says a state representative shouldn't speak that way? Take off your "liberal" glasses and see the truth. Ticks you off doesn't it? Well now maybe you can see where this kid is coming from. By the way that same teacher was sued for his efforts to teach only evolution. He won the suit but the Judge did award attorney fees to the other guy as the suit was not without merit. In my opinion that teacher's comments belong on an editorial page - not in a class room - where the teacher is to ompart knowledge - not bias. posted by
madkow2747
on Dec 17, 2007 at 05:28 PM
Just wait until that student gets to college and faces the professors with tenure... would he/she like to sue all of them as well (especially since almost all of them are liberal)? He must have a difficult time in life, being offended by everyone that doesn't believe in God. It doesn't annoy me that the student is religious- it annoys me that he is trying to remove a good (and well-liked) teacher because of a difference of opinion. I don't believe that a teacher is a representative of the state- they are representatives of learning. (Now if it were truly a representative, like an elected or appointed individual that holds office, and they were officially saying things like that, I'd agree with you.)"Take off your "liberal" glasses and see the truth. Ticks you off doesn't it?" Not really. I think it's pretty funny actually. Then again, I'm not offended by people thinking I'm wrong. And BTW, I applaud his efforts to teach evolution only. It's a scientific theory that mostly fits the facts. Creationism does not follow the scientific method and has no place in a science class. posted by
capomerv
on Dec 17, 2007 at 10:18 PM
I go to Capo Valley High. This is an isolated case of a close minded christian kid getting offended by relating Christianity to AP European History. The quotes are taken out of context. For example when he said "take off your Jesus glasses" he was in the middle of a lecture connecting the fact the monarchies blinded their citizens from confronting injustices with the the church and religion. If conservatives throughout the country didn't jump to preemptive conclusions all the time and to ear the whole story maybe we wouldn't have these situations, Dr. Corbett hasn't even responded to these ridiculous allegations.
The country does not know this teacher. He is a brilliant man with a truly unique and candid perspective on today's society, he does not deserve to be removed due to trying to enlighten the children of the conservative bubble named Orange County. posted by
gube
on Dec 17, 2007 at 11:11 PM
capomerv if you go to capo valley high then how did you hear of TN blog?
posted by
Colitas
on Dec 18, 2007 at 05:13 AM
I think the litigation crap has gone way to far in many ways. I had a high school English teacher that I think was from England or Britain. I can't remember. But my point is he use to say off handed comments about the States. I use to think go back home then. But it never occurred to me to sue him. If you don't like the teacher request to change teachers if possible. Even in Teh we had more than English teacher, and that was almost 20 yrs ago. What ever happen to have satisfaction of knowing you are right. Why do people feel the need to air out every little grievance in public forum. Just to let everyone else know that they are right all the time. I am getting to the point of whenever I hear of someone suing someone else, the person doing the suing automatically losses creditability with me. There is a time a place, but come on enough is enough.
posted by
olivia
on Dec 18, 2007 at 05:51 AM
This has turned into a "sue" happy country. The parents are teaching their children to sue whoever offends your beliefs. I'm with you Colitas. Take the child out of that classroom and leave it at that. We need to learn to teach our children that there are offensive people out there and deal with it. We are going to have a lot of "scarred" adults out there someday if we don't teach our kids that people have different opinions and it's ok to be around ignorant people. They aren't going to really hurt you with their words if you are strong in your beliefs.
posted by
samheath
on Dec 18, 2007 at 05:58 AM
Notwithstanding lawyers running/ruining the country the teacher would never have dared say "Take off your Allah glasses." The remark about "Jesus glasses" was totally unprofessional and small-minded. As to the universities, this is where professors are found that believe they are the only true gods and "preach" accordingly to captive classes that don't dare dispute these gods.
posted by
robertcarter
on Dec 18, 2007 at 07:45 AM
Someone said that a teacher should not be a representative of the state and therefore they can say anyhing they want to. Then how about a teacher telling his students that the world was created in seven days? Or that muhammed recieved direction directly from God? Or that the Red Sea did part for the Jews? The college liberal teacher are in abundence. Why? Did one get the job and pull strings for others to get on the payroll? They are intelligent but they have not been great at predicting the evolution of society. posted by
samheath
on Dec 18, 2007 at 07:52 AM
They have been the dominant force in social engineering; and have failed miserably to understand the realities of life. Living in their insulated worlds much as politicians how can it be otherwise.
posted by
Joty
on Dec 18, 2007 at 08:23 AM
...First amendment to the Constitution. That one says that the state cannot back a religion but neither can it be against a religion. So which religion is this teacher against? If the amendment states "a" religion, doesn't it have to be specific? Yes, I am being a smart a**. The whole thing is ludicrous. Where does a kid get the kind of money for a law suit? Yeah, mom & dad, so who is really behind it? Another craving for 15 minutes of fame. Oh, and robertcarter, before I screwed up my elbow I was a hell of a baseball player. I just made sure I had my aluminum lined colander on my head under my cap... posted by
oohchild
on Dec 18, 2007 at 08:53 AM
robertcarter, your bias is showing.... I highly doubt that a teacher covering European history was "was sued for his efforts to teach only evolution." Evolution belongs in a biology class, not a history class. There goes that creationist clap-trap again! :-) I'll say that any child's faith that's so weak as to be endangered by a "Jesus" remark isn't based on a solid foundation to begin with. Being in a minority & challenging your own beliefs can be a great lesson for a young adult. Critical thinking skills are sorely lacking in our schools today, so we need more teachers willing to teach "outside the test." Telling a kid to think critically shouldn't be a problem, folks. "Jesus glasses" don't necessarily have to blind a person of faith. Plenty of Christians accept the truth of the past. |
