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robertcarter - > Robert Carter -> Freedom of speech/religion
Freedom of speech/religion

I read and article in the Californian of a teacher in Mission Viejo who is getting sued by a student.  It seems the teacher, James Corbett a history or social studies teacher of 19 years, likes to let his students know that he thinks Christians are just plain wrong.  He was taped lecturing his students to "take off your Jesus glasses and see the truth".  The student got offended and has files a law suit on the teacher for violation of the First amendment to the Constitution.  That one says that the state cannot back a religion but neither can it be against a religion.

Now put this in the context of the recent turmoil in Kern County Board of Education where a Board member wanted to put up posters quoting the national motto "In God We Trust".  There were quite a few people who thought that Board member was promoting Christianity.   Now I wonder what those folks would think of Teacher James Corbett in their School System.  A teacher does have freedom of speech but in the classroom that speech should not include personal bias.

A teacher does influence the future but so does a preacher.

I have had atheists for teachers and I disregarded those teachings, those classes were harder for me because I caught myself editing what the teacher was teaching.  I would like to hear the views of Liberals (you know who you are - you can't play baseball because youd would have to run to the right).

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posted by robertcarter on Monday, December 17, 2007 at 10:55 AM
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posted by George on Dec 26, 2007 at 05:37 PM
>Not from whom, but from what - STD's and unwanted teenage pregancies!

Every homosexual man in the US has an excellent idea how AIDS are contracted. The progressive sexual education advertised condoms wherever possible. Yet, in the country where access to condoms is not a problem, we note large increase in HIV infections in homosexuals. Knowledge alone will not protect you. You must have some will power and values to avoid hitting slippery slope.
posted by madkow2747 on Dec 26, 2007 at 05:56 PM
The increase in the transmission of HIV among gay men is not due to a lack of values.  "Not all the reasons for an apparent increase in unprotected anal intercourse are known, but research points to the following factors: optimism about improved HIV treatment, substance use, complex sexual decision making, seeking sex partners on the Internet, and failure to practice safer sex.  Some of these men may be serosorting, or only having sex (or unprotected sex) with a partner whose HIV serostatus, they believe, is the same as their own."  (Wolitski R. The emergence of barebacking among gay men in the United States: a public health perspective. Journal of Gay and Lesbian Psychotherapy 2005;9:13–38.)  There is also a higher susceptibility to HIV with the recent increase in STDs among all almost all sexually active groups.  (Especially scary that syphilis is re-emerging.)  There has been such a push toward safer sex practices that many people are tired of hearing it.  But the last thing they need is a lecture on their supposedly immoral behavior.  That won't change anything.
posted by ProgressoDasani on Dec 26, 2007 at 09:06 PM

I think that if a Muslim student was complaining that he had been told to take of "his Allah glasses", by his public school teacher the student would be getting a more sympathetic response from many of the posters here.

If he were suing after have been told to take of the "Allah glasses" by a teacher in a fundamentalist Christian school, he would be applauded as a 21st century Profile In Courage.

posted by oohchild on Dec 27, 2007 at 08:34 AM

That's just silly! A Muslim student attending a Christian private school? And suppose the moon were made of green cheese...

The context of the remark is important, so I'll point it out again: the subject being taught was European History. The teacher was pointing out the fact that Christian influences over the general population have affected their history, sometimes to their detriment. If the teacher were to point out the facts of Islamic influences in European history & the negative impacts of the Muslim faith, then it's the same thing.

So, the fact of this case is that the teacher wasn't telling his students to take of their Jesus glasses, he was referring to Europeans & the attempt to use religion to control the people. Now do you get it?

http://www.ocregister.com/o...

"I would assume that most of the kids in Corbett's classroom are Christians. Only one sued, however. The rest understood the appropriateness of Corbett's "irreligious" comments.

Farnan's suit references Corbett's remarks tape-recorded during a single class period. You wouldn't realize it by reading the complaint, but that session dealt with reforms instituted in the 18th century by Austrian Emperor Joseph II at the time of the American and French revolutions.

My 14-year-old grandson is in an honors World History class at Glendora high school. When I quizzed him about Joseph he referred to the emperor as an "enlightened despot" who attempted to institute reforms that Corbett's class also studied. Joseph tried to abolish serfdom, extend religious tolerance to Jews and curtail the Catholic Church's authority. The church vigorously opposed him.

But while my grandson's teacher didn't relate the struggle over Joseph's reforms to present times, Corbett did. And he is to be applauded, not sued, for doing so.

Which brings us to "Jesus glasses." "When you put on your Jesus glasses, you can't see the truth." Corbett said that about the church's effort to sway peasant opinion against Joseph's reforms, using the peasants' deep religious faith to convince them that Joseph had acted against their religion. In this way, having peasants "put on their Jesus glasses" made it impossible for them to see the need for reform."

posted by ProgressoDasani on Dec 27, 2007 at 10:04 AM

The Austian emperor Joseph is certainly an interesting field for study.  Among other things (perhaps you include these among the "reforms" you cite) he set strict limits on the number of candles that could be used at Mass.  One of his cousins, a Protestant German prince derided him as the "liturgist-in-chief".

But as for my point, there certainly are muslim students attending christian schools - you shouldn't be so narrow-minded to think otherwise.   Check out the names on the Mater Dei athletic teams.

posted by madkow2747 on Dec 27, 2007 at 11:07 AM
So a certain sounding name automatically means we can assume they practice a certain religion now?
posted by George on Dec 27, 2007 at 11:41 AM
>The increase in the transmission of HIV among gay men is not due to a lack of values.

>optimism about improved HIV treatment, substance use...

Nice. This kind of optimism is a pure madness. Besides, HIV treatment is extremely expensive and the so called "optimists" often don't have health insurance and acquire it through domestic partnerships with an insured persons. I think that "pessimists" must pay for that in the end. Also, I thought substance use was about values too. These kinds of  scientific studies help very little.

In the eighties, sanitary authorities closed San Francisco bath houses because they thought that spreading of AIDS had something to do with gay orgies there. Obviously, the matter went to court which re-opened the public baths. The outcome was tragic, but hardly anybody talks about it, because it appears to be an inconvenient truth. The same applies to optimism about improved HIV treatment.
posted by giraffefairie on Dec 27, 2007 at 12:04 PM
Here is the first Amendment of the US constitution, verbatim, barring the government from making laws that prohibit religion, and speech.  Please stop assuming that the Constitution was written with Christianity in mind.  It was written with a plethora of religions and the lack of religion in mind.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

posted by madkow2747 on Dec 27, 2007 at 01:25 PM
Do you have some way to prove your assertion that HIV positive men are often uninsured, and that they get insurance through domestic partnerships?  You make them sound like leeches.  Hey, guess what- I'm at risk for cancer.  I'm quite optimistic about my chances, even though I engage in some activities that raise my risk for cancer, like not wearing sun-block at all times.  I get health insurance through my partner.  Am I a leech on everyone other person with insurance?  Or is it different because we're talking about a heterosexual woman instead of a gay man?
posted by Joty on Dec 27, 2007 at 02:58 PM
Wow, I would have thought that someone who lived under an oppressive governement would be a whole lot more tolerant. I was wrong in this case, eh?
posted by ProgressoDasani on Dec 27, 2007 at 07:24 PM

Madkow, When adherents to a religion purposely choose names to reflect their faith, yes, you can presume that those names often reflect their religion.

But you're just grasping for straws now.  Do you really need to be convinced that Christian schools have open-admission policies, and that they attract students across religious lines?  They are unlikely to attract muslims from families who demand stoning for teachers who mis-name teddy bears, I suppose.

posted by madkow2747 on Dec 27, 2007 at 07:46 PM
I never said that Christian schools don't have students of different faiths attending them (to not accept someone of a different religion would be discrimination and, frankly, many parochial schools do provide the best education which is attractive regardless of religion). 
I simply said it was "narrow minded" to assume that names always reflect religion- which is what you were using to prove your point.
posted by ProgressoDasani on Dec 27, 2007 at 08:12 PM

Madkow, a few posts up, oochild ridiculed my thread contribution - my observation that offense taken by a muslim student if told by his teacher to "take off his Allah glasses", would be defended by the many who are not sympathetic to the offended christian student.

She even compared the notion of a muslim student in a christian school to the notion that the moon is made of green cheese.  Obviously, while noting the muslim-sounding names on the Mater Dei rosters isn't proof-positive, I didn't feel it necessary to work up a more rigorous proof. 

How about addressing the point I made itself? 

posted by madkow2747 on Dec 27, 2007 at 09:32 PM
Did you read the context of the quote?  If the leader of a country were using Islam to subjugate the people of that country, as many leaders in Europe did using Christianity, then it would be a valid criticism.  (Not to mention the fact that Islam is currently used to subjugate many people according to western standards, and fundamentalist Muslims are criticized for that.)  So what's your point?
posted by ProgressoDasani on Dec 27, 2007 at 10:07 PM

My question remains:

Would a Muslim student, if offended by a teacher who told him to "take off his allah glasses", be viewed more sympathetically than this student?

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