Search:

The Weedpatch Gazette
About samheath


Real Name:
Samuel Heath
Member Since:
February 03, 2007
Last Signed In:
May 22, 2008
Profile Views:
4448
Blog Views:
47953
View Profile
Send a Message
Send To A Friend
Sign Guestbook
Add as a Friend

Previous Posts
Consulting Frogs
A Spirit of Divination
Crystal Skulls
They Don’t Feel The Heat!
Get Ready for the Really Big One!
Come On Summer!
Science Should Allow for an Ibis-stick
What Prospect for a Better Future
LHC: Philosopher’s Stone!
Believe as You Will
Archives
February 07
March 07
April 07
May 07
June 07
July 07
August 07
September 07
October 07
November 07
December 07
January 08
February 08
March 08
April 08
May 08
Subscribe!
RSS 2.0 feed RSS 2.0
Add to My Yahoo
Add to My Google
Add to Bloglines
Add to My AOL
samheath - > The Weedpatch Gazette -> “Mortal clay” more than a poetic expression
“Mortal clay” more than a poetic expression

Young Frankenstein is one of my very favorite funny films. I’m far from being alone since the AFI has it number 13 on its list of the 100 funniest American movies ever made. From insisting he be called “Fronkensteen” and calling his grandfather a nutcase, the grandson is led to read the book “How I Did It” and exclaims “It could work!” For those who know the history of the original Mary Shelley Frankenstein and how the mysterious forces of electricity and magnetism were being used in both science and quackery of the times, Gene Wilder’s “It could work!” is something still believed by quite a few people.

In many ways both electricity and magnetism continue to be the mysterious forces they were at the time of the original Frankenstein story, and some of the theories of how life began require the electricity of lightning. It can be supposed this was the “breath of God” in the Genesis account, something very much like the Frankenstein story. Even after heeding the wise dictum that once you have exhausted all the possibilities of the probable in seeking an answer there remains the improbable as the only remaining solution, there are improbabilities beyond human ability to entertain. There is a very good reason some scientists say there are things “unknowable” about our universe, that there are things beyond even our capacity to imagine.

The beginning of our universe is difficult enough to imagine, but what of the instrumentality preceding our universe responsible for the original material; where did that come from? Far beyond our science; and even far beyond our imagination, things not requiring atomic structure for their existence for example.

But the Genesis story might not only be alluding to electricity, lightning, as the breath of God, but also may credit his using the “dust of the earth” for life forms. It may be no accident that our bodies are often referred to as “clay.”

The following points are made by Eörs Szathmary (Nature 2005 433:469): In investigating the origin of life and the simplest possible life forms, one needs to enquire about the composition and working of a minimal cell that has some form of metabolism, genetic replication from a template, and boundary (membrane) production. Identifying the necessary and sufficient features of life has a long tradition in theoretical biology. But living systems are products of evolution, and an answer in very general terms, even if possible, is likely to remain purely phenomenological. Going deeper into mechanisms means having to account for the organization of various processes, and such organization has been realized in several different ways by evolution. Eukaryotic cells (such as those from which we are made) are much more complicated than prokaryotes (such as bacteria), and eukaryotes harbor organelles that were once free-living bacteria. A further complication is that multicellular organisms consist of building blocks—cells—that are also alive. So aiming for a general model of all kinds of living beings would be fruitless; instead, such models have to be tied to particular levels of biological organization. Two recent workshops reviewed the state of the art in artificial cell research, much of which focuses on self-replicating lipid vesicles. David Deamer (Univ. of California, Santa Cruz) and Pier Luigi Luisi (ETH Zurich) each described the production of lipids using light energy, and the template-directed self-replication of RNA within a lipid vesicle. In addition, Luisi demonstrated the polymerization of amino acids into proteins on the vesicle surface, which acts as a catalyst for the polymerization process. The principal hurdle remains the synthesis of efficient RNA replicases and related enzymes entirely within an artificial cell. Martin Hanczyc (Harvard Univ.) showed how the formation of lipid vesicles can be catalyzed by encapsulated clay particles with RNA adsorbed on their surfaces. This suggests that encapsulated clay could catalyze both the formation of lipid vesicles and the polymerization of RNA...

So, the story in Genesis and Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein may have scientific validity in the use of clay and electricity. But it would serve well to keep this caveat in mind when attempting to force some simplistic view of evolution on people: “Identifying the necessary and sufficient features of life has a long tradition in theoretical biology. But living systems are products of evolution, and an answer in very general terms, even if possible, is likely to remain purely phenomenological.”

Please note the doublespeak of attempting to be “scientific” while at the same time using phrases like “theoretical biology” and “an answer in very general terms, even if possible, is likely to remain purely phenomenological.” If possible? Purely phenomenological? It won’t do; these are not answers, only labels in lieu of understanding. In my opinion the story in Genesis is a far better abstract of what comes closest to the truth of the matter. I may not be satisfied with the errors of Creation, but both benevolent and malevolent gods at war resulting in the chaos and confusion to be found in good vs. evil, a universe hostile to life and Nature red in tooth and claw at least makes some sense of things. And it remains intelligent life, self-aware and cognitive as represented in human beings continues to hold the distinction of being the longest shot in the universal lottery.

Take this for example: World’s smallest life form discovered. Shasta County mine yields mini-microbe. New York Times, Saturday, December 23, 2006: The smallest form of life known to science just got smaller. Four million of the newly discovered microbe—assuming the discovery, reported Friday in the journal Science, is confirmed—could fit into the period at the end of this sentence. Scientists found the microbes living in a remarkably inhospitable environment, drainage water as caustic as battery acid from a mine in Northern California. The microbes, members of an ancient family of organisms known as archaea, formed a pink scum on green pools of hot mine water laden with toxic metals, including arsenic. “It was amazing,” said Jillian Banfield of UC Berkeley, a member of the discovery team. “These were totally new.” In their paper, the scientists call the microbes “smaller than any other known cellular life form.” Scientists say the discovery could bear on estimates of the pervasiveness of exotic microbial life, which some experts suspect forms a hidden biosphere extending miles underground whose total mass may exceed that of all surface life...

While some are attempting to extrapolate this to the possibility of life on other planets throughout the universe, there is simply no evidence to suggest our planet with its possibly unique structure of “a hidden biosphere extending miles underground whose total mass may exceed that of all surface life” exists elsewhere. Just to place life here on our planet into the phenomenological is to say science does not have an answer to the mystery of the origin of life or an answer to what, exactly, life is. And without an answer to these questions, in my opinion the story in Genesis remains the standard, and the simplistic catch-all term “evolution” does not answer the greater questions of life, our solar system or the universe. But then I agree with those who say some things are “unknowable,” at least while we are confined to these mortal bodies of clay.

Posted in these Groups:
Topics:
posted by samheath on Sunday, May 20, 2007 at 12:56 PM
Report a Violation
Viewed 167 times
14 comments from 6 users

1

posted by GregL on May 21, 2007 at 07:17 AM
Sam, at the risk of being a 'spoiler', your last sentence says it all!  I am scientific about most things, although science doesn't have the answers to everything and holding a purely scientific view about everything in the world is what I would consider as being narrow minded.  There are simply some things that we can't know until we move on to the next level.  And I think that regardless of someone's religious beliefs, there has to be an agreement that there is some sort of a higher power that created all this. 
posted by samheath on May 21, 2007 at 07:57 AM
That's why I support the concept of intelligent design, though I believe it to be in many ways benevolent and malevolent.
posted by oohchild on May 21, 2007 at 09:06 AM

Okay, if you don't mind answering a few questions for me:

1. Why does there have to be an agreement to a higher power creating the universe?

2. The Intelligent Designer is who, exactly? Is this a personally involved deity, or is it more in the line of Spinoza's (& Einstein's) God?

3. Should science studies consider an untestable Intelligent Designer, or should ID be left to the philosophies?

Sorry, but I just don't think "God of the Gaps" is a good enough explanation. "I don't know, yet" is a perfectly acceptable scientific answer.

posted by samheath on May 21, 2007 at 09:17 AM
"I don't know" is the expression I have repeated over and over. But "beliefs" are to be found among those professing to be "scientific" as well. It would serve far better for those pushing a simplistic evolution with a mindless creation of it all to confess their beliefs in lieu of understanding as well. It comes down to both sides ultimately falling back to the I don't know position for the sake of intellectual honesty.
posted by rm6 on May 21, 2007 at 09:18 AM
I agree with you oohchild, I don't think there HAS to be an agreement that some sort of higher power created all this. We don't always need to invoke God to explain something we don't yet understand scientifically.
posted by samheath on May 21, 2007 at 09:22 AM
Nor does God have to be abandoned for the sake of science.
posted by oohchild on May 21, 2007 at 09:51 AM

But but but.....what about my questions? If you support the concept of Intelligent Design, who's the designer? Can ID be left to philosophers, or must it be considered "science?"

Inquiring minds want to know.

posted by GuyPinestra on May 21, 2007 at 01:09 PM
Dude, don't make it so hard on the secular humanists, they're not very interested in discussing the facts, if the facts don't happen to agree with their philosophy of 'unimaginable luck'. Some people are SO out of sync with their Creator that they deny the fact of their creation, even when their scientists are unable to disprove it.

It IS God's world, and "Boy, is He getting PISSED!!!"
posted by oohchild on May 21, 2007 at 02:04 PM

Nice set of strawmen you guys got going there - seen any crows lately?

Aero, your 50 year old quotes are quite misleading & out of date. DNA & the study of genetics actually supports evolutionary biology quite perfectly. In fact, there are certain HERV links to primates that can't be explained in any other way, other than common descent.

Again I ask, who's this Intelligent Designer? Is it a personal, intercessionary type of God?

posted by oohchild on May 21, 2007 at 02:55 PM
Hey, I'm all for people keeping their beliefs personal. But, if someone blogs about Intelligent Design, I think it's perfectly respectable to ask about an Intelligent Designer. If we can't even discuss that, then why bring it up? Why not just keep it personal, as you said?
posted by rm6 on May 21, 2007 at 03:23 PM

Exactly oohchild...

Hey Guy, why don't you list some of those "facts" that you say the secular humanists don't want to discuss.

aero, there is another theory of how life arose on earth, it's called panspermia, or more specifically, exogenesis.

posted by rm6 on May 21, 2007 at 04:38 PM

I only listed another theory, that life on earth has alien origins (as opposed to evolution, or as you call it "spontaneous generation", or creationism), I don't know how that life got started, nor do I care because I think its a pretty ludicrous idea.

posted by kidswi on May 22, 2007 at 12:41 PM
With a very young child at home, I have been thinking a lot about the education and misinformation she will be receiving once she is in school.  I believe that the universe has a creator- God the father.  My faith could be described as evangelical Christian, although the term is used very loosely and I believe the world has a very distorted idea of exactly what a Christian is.  With that said, right now I feel that the creation should be presented in public school as several "theories".  As I believe each person on here agrees, including Sam, the creation certainly is based on personal faith.  School aged children should be exposed to each creation idea in a general sense, and be presented with resources in which they, with the involvement of their families, could study each "theory" further.  When I was in high school and college, I had the opportunity to take both world religions as well as biological, physical, and chemical science classes.  Each of these classes presented the different ideas as to how this universe was formed.  In no way was my faith crushed by anything any class ever taught me.  The public school system has a duty to share the knowledge of the time with the children and families it serves.  It is then the duty of families, friends, and most importantly the individual student to truly study and form their own ideas, faith, and knowledge based upon history, science, and reason.
posted by oohchild on May 22, 2007 at 02:20 PM

Sure, if you want to study & compare creation stories in a specifically designated class, go for it. From the looks of this site, there's at least 50 just to get them started:

http://www.magictails.com/c...

That has nothing to do with teaching biological evolution in biology class, though.

;)

1

Leave a Comment
Ground Rules for posting comments:
  • No profanity or personal attacks.
  • Please comment on the subject of the post itself.
If you do not follow these rules we will remove your comment. Please keep it civil.

To protect users from spam, we need you to prove that you're a human being.
Please enter the text from the image at left.