Hillary Clinton vs. Barack Obama - Tehachapi Man Explains It All - TehachapiManMan's Blog - Tehachapi News

Feb 23, 2007 at 03:02 PM : Ho hum,...

Ho hum, yawn. I'm largely undecided still, but I there are a few points of the above letter that concern me, and they have nothing to do with the candidates themselves, but rather people's reaction to them.

First of all, choosing one candidate over another because you don't want to hear about the other candidate's old baggage is certainly no reason to pick the leader of our country! Believe me, just because Barack doesn't have the sordid history that Clinton has, someone somewhere will dig up something and smear it all over the media. I certainly don't wish it, or approve of it, but it will happen, for any candidate.

Secondly, I find it unsettling when people start Rah Rah-ing for candidates and try to get other people 'excited' and fired up about them. Yes, we are emotional human beings, and jumping on the bandwagon and cheering and getting excited is fun, but is THAT any reason or way to elect a leader?

I'm so disenchanted with politicians that I don't really care WHO becomes president, or from which party, as long as it is the most qualified, and HONEST person for the job. Yeah, right!

Feb 23, 2007 at 03:02 PM : I'm sorry but...

I'm sorry but with all the problems were are having with the Middle East doesn't the posibility of having a female president concern anyone? We will be looked at as a joke. You think the risk of terror attacks is bad now! If she wins she'll pull the troops out of Iraq and then they will feel like they have won! Then the will attack us because we will be being lead by a weak woman! Women are not their equals! I think it's just trouble!

Feb 23, 2007 at 03:02 PM : ...I find it...

...I find it unsettling when people start Rah Rah-ing for candidates and try to get other people 'excited' and fired up about them. Yes, we are emotional human beings, and jumping on the bandwagon and cheering and getting excited is fun, but is THAT any reason or way to elect a leader?

I disagree. It's fun and it's a great way to elect a leader.

I think a woman is certainly capable of being President, but I don't think Hillary is the right person because I don't want to relive the Clinton years...if she is elected conservatives will force me to.

Lastly, this post was not directed at either of you. I'm trying to find other Barack supporters in Tehachapi. People with an independent spirit who find his outlook inspiring.

Feb 23, 2007 at 04:02 PM : Is Hillary is the only...

Is Hillary is the only candidate who would want to pull troops out? I'm sure as the war becomes more unpopular with the public at large, there will probably be more candidates who would adovcate a pullout. I don't agree with pulling out either, but politicians will do whatever will get them the most votes.

I don't think the prospect of a woman president is so bad. Remember Margaret Thatcher? She was pretty tough as I recall. I typically resist change in life, but when it comes to politics, I BEG for it. Remember Ross Perot? I voted for him because he was definitely NOT the usual politician, and I think he would have made a difference. Hillary certainly doesn't appear to be any different than the standard politician, but the radical dynamic of having a woman in the white house would certainly be different.

Besides, I'm all for giving people enough rope to hang themselves, and if Hillary becomes president and runs this country into the toilet, then we can only look up from there!

I'm ready for a fresh candidate, and yes, Barack appears to be that person so far. I only hope he continues to be.

Feb 23, 2007 at 04:02 PM : "Besides,...

"Besides, I'm all for giving people enough rope to hang themselves, and if Hillary becomes president and runs this country into the toilet, then we can only look up from there! "

lol...

Feb 23, 2007 at 04:02 PM : Barack is refreshing....

Barack is refreshing.

Hillary will bring needless distractions --well said.

I will be supporting Obama - he knows how to roll with the punches and has the proper determination.

I love that he put off school and sacrificed in Chicago and while doing so - learned important lessons.

Feb 23, 2007 at 04:02 PM : I think Ralph Nader,...

I think Ralph Nader, though I wouldn't vote for him, is a very smart man, because he said that he'd run for president again if Hillary wins the nomination. The third-party candidate in there typically steals just enough liberal-slanted votes away from the Democratic nominee to keep that person out of office. Nader knows he wouldn't get elected, but he'd be sacrificing the time and money to keep the treacherous woman away from re-entering the Whitehouse.

My own take on Hillary is that she's still married to Bill and I don't think any household, rather than individual, should be allowed to serve more than two terms. I mean great minds think alike, but then so do the Clintons...LOL!

In any case, I'd vote for a woman for president if she were the right choice...I'd even give a close ear to what Condi would say if she were to run. But Hillary is a bit much...Too embarassing to have a presidential debacle such as Bill in there and then stick his wife in the seat afterward. I mean, she didn't know what was going on when she was there the first time, how could we ever trust Bill the second time around! Heaven only knows what he'd be doing while she's painting her nails in the oval office. And besides, you'd have the whole issue over whether or not she should get male interns or go the other way....hmmhmm, I mean turn the other cheek..I mean....Oh well, you know what I mean. :o)

If I had to vote for a democrat, I think Obama would be the best choice in the mix so far for me. But then if I had to vote for a Democrat, I'd probably move my family to a remote island somewhere and get out of Germany...mmm...I mean the states. :o)

Feb 23, 2007 at 05:02 PM : I agree with 99% of...

I agree with 99% of what you said, T8...and the fact that you'd even consider voting for Obama is why I like him so much.

Thanks for your thoughts. If Hillary runs, they should put Laura Bush against her lol...she'd win through sheer likability.

Feb 23, 2007 at 05:02 PM : I would find it hard...

I would find it hard for the God loving people of this great country to elect a muslim to to the presidents office, especially with all this country has been through and is going through.

Feb 23, 2007 at 05:02 PM : T8erBoy...

T8erBoy wrote "I mean, she didn't know what was going on when she was there the first time, how could we ever trust Bill the second time around!"

INTERNS watch out Bill will be free to play around while Hill is running the country....Again! No Firggin Way! God help us! if we have to endure another round with the Clinton's.

Feb 23, 2007 at 06:02 PM : BoondockSaint1 said...

BoondockSaint1 said "I would find it hard for the God loving people of this great country to elect a muslim to to [sic] the presidents office, especially with all this country has been through and is going through."

What is that supposed to mean? Does it mean that simply because many terrorists are Muslims that ALL Muslims are bad? I'm sorry, and I honestly don't mean to be rude, but that is a very narrow-minded view. What matters is what his views and policies are, not that he is a Muslim. There happen to be members of ALL religions that take it WAY too far, to the point of extremism. Barack certainly seems to be level headed and honest and I'm looking forward to watching him as the campaigns go forward.

P.S. Did you intentionally capitalize 'God' and not 'muslim'? I am not Muslim, but I do believe in respecting all beliefs. :)

Feb 23, 2007 at 06:02 PM : This is a response to...

This is a response to countygirl who said that electing a female to the US Presidency would be "looked at as a joke."
And this would be opposed to the frequent references to the scholarly and manly antics of our current President?
I am not a Hillary supporter, not necessarily even a "feminist," as many radicals might define the term. But countygirl, you are the last person I would have expected to denigrate your gender in such a blatantly biased and unempowered way. How will any woman ever overcome such warped thinking? If terrorists consider it a weakness to grant equality to females, aren't you weakening our society in a slower form of gender terrorism? Should we limit our country's opportunities to half of the population based on a perceived weakness?
Who's to say a female President would automatically remove troops from Iraq? Is that what you would do? Regardless, if I were to follow your line of reasoning that by electing a women, who is not considered the "equal" of Eastern terrorists, wouldn't that be enough of a statement to say that we are united as humans, distinguished by our individual accomplishments and not led or limited by our genitalia? What about our female troops who are over there right now, leaving behind their families to fight for your rights as a US citizen, regardless of your gender?
From reading your posts, I suspect you are only half-way invested in this line of thinking, because I see a smart, strong, intelligent and involved woman who care about her society. Hey, maybe we should vote for you! (that is, if you could be persuaded to take on the age-old American fight for equality and liberty)

Feb 23, 2007 at 06:02 PM : lol! You totally...

lol! You totally misunderstood my post. I personally think having a female president would be awesome. I think a woman can do the job just as well as a man. I'm sorry if I was not clear. When I said that "we would be a joke" I meant in the minds of people In the Middle East. The people whose traditions and beliefs degrade women. Where women have to walk behind their men and so on. I am just fearful that if Hillary was elected president they terrorists would think we we weak and try harder than ever to destroy all we believe in and stand for. FREEDOM, and the right to run for the presidency no matter what race, religion or gender you are! :)

Feb 23, 2007 at 07:02 PM : Alright, the Hillary...

Alright, the Hillary and Obama bashing from their media folks has begun! Let the implosion begin.

Feb 23, 2007 at 07:02 PM : I hope at...

I hope at lest one of them gets the Democratic nomination. That way we are guaranteed a Republican President!

Feb 23, 2007 at 07:02 PM : Maybe I spoke too soon...

Maybe I spoke too soon and you did understand my post. Sorry I kinda just read the first few lines of yours and jumped into a response. I didn't say she would remove the troops because she's a woman. I personally think that is what she will do. I highly believe in equality between sexes. Sadly most other countries havn't quite caught up to us yet.

Call it what you will geneder terrorism or not, I personally think a woman as president right now with some of the rocky relationships we have with other countries is a risk. That is all I am saying.

Feb 23, 2007 at 07:02 PM : I stand by my post. In...

I stand by my post. In this time we live in it wouldn't be good to have a woman or a muslim as president. In most foreign cultures like the Middle East, China, Japan, India, South America the woman are subserviant to the man, by us having a woman as a president would put us in a postion where the powers of the world would think they could push us around, and just to make herself look good as a president she would end up putting us in a situation that we don't want to be in. As far as the muslim thing I myself don't think it is a good idea especially with all that is going on in the world, call me old fashioned or a tradionalist but I am pretty sure most of the population feel the same way.

Feb 23, 2007 at 08:02 PM : Thanks for responding...

Thanks for responding countygirl. See, my patriot friend, maybe you should run!

Feb 23, 2007 at 10:02 PM : Gosh, the rhetoric is...

Gosh, the rhetoric is seeping up from the dump - and the election is such a long way off. Can anyone just sit back and listen some more? It is soooo very early and really big mistakes are made in the grueling race to the White House. Keep your eyes open and your senses clear. Tighten your seat belt because we are in for a bumpy ride.

The blog reading on this subject would have been much more interesting if female and muslin bigotry didn't surface with such force. It is terribly disappointing.

Since when did we elect our officials based on what other nations thought? Under that condition, how could George W. ever had made it? He is considered a "cowbay"( and that was not a compliment) by most of the world, including the majority of Americans.

Before John F. Kennedy was elected President, there was a huge backlash about him being Catholic. Hard to imagine today, considering we currently have an Evangelical as President. Religion should not enter the equation - at all.

So, tehachapiman, I'm with you. I'm watching Barack Obama and he looks very good - love his common sense approach. And, for whoever thinks that only a "woman" will pull us out of Iraq, pay close attention because nearly ever candidate is talking about the war as a mistake, that we need a polical, not a military, solution, that our presence in Iraq is causing the upscaled violence, etc. I continue to follow Hilary Clinton because I think she is one very smart woman. She has proven herself over and over again. A liar? About what? No details are available but people will jump on the wagon anyway. I won't forget her proposal for a nation wide health plan - she got beaten up so bad. And now - what do we have? A big fat mess with all the politians once again running on a platform including an improved national health care program. Should have listened to her 12 years ago.

Feb 24, 2007 at 07:02 AM : Countygirl, your...

Countygirl, your argument is specious on many levels. Our relations will be strained no matter who is president (hint: Iraq debacle) - gender will not be the issue. Do you really think that the root of Condaleeza Rice's (or heck, Golda Meier!) inability to broker peace in the Middle East has to do with her gender? This might come as a surprise to many - but as the citizens of the US were hyper-focused on whether Hillary should keep her maiden name once Bill became president - several Muslim countries had already elected a woman as their head of state: Sirimavo Bandaranaike, Sri Lanka, Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan, Tansu Ciller of Turkey... and more recently - Megawati Sukarnoputri of Indonesia, and opposition leaders Khaleda Zia and Sheik Hasina Wazed of Bangladesh. Take a moment to look at this list and ponder what these rulers were and were not able to do. Was it because of gender? http://womenshistory.about.com/od/rulers20th/a/women_heads.htm It's fascinating (in that anthropological sort of way) that the US still has so much trouble with gender, but countries as varied as India, Bolivia, Poland and Liberia have all had (or have) women leading their countries. The chauvinism may be more overt in many other countries but, at least in the political arena, not as pervasive. For me? Hillary Clinton is a bit too much of a hawk, but I prefer her stance on trade - I trust she will address the problems of those who lose out because of shifting trade patterns with adjustment programs and education, not trade barriers.

Feb 24, 2007 at 07:02 AM : And by the way, Barack...

And by the way, Barack Obama is not a Muslim. He was raised by his mother and grand-mother, who were white women, culturally protestant, but not very religious. He discovered his Christian faith on his own while working for churches in Illinois. This was in his 20's. His father, who he never really knew, moved to Africa and died early on in Barack's life. His father was a black man and though technically born a muslim, was not practicing and had become an athiest by the time Barack was born.

Again. Not a muslim. Get your facts straight when you want to throw around silly arguments.

Feb 24, 2007 at 09:02 AM : Hilary is a power...

Hilary is a power hungry opportunist.............................

Obama is subliminally using race as his "in". He calls himself black because it benefits him, however he's half white and raised in a white household.

Neither has the background nor experience to qualify them for the office.

I refuse to consider either as a viable candidate.

Feb 24, 2007 at 10:02 AM : What does it matter...

What does it matter whether he is white or black or both?

Feb 24, 2007 at 12:02 PM : Well, this is all so...

Well, this is all so very interesting. TehachapiManMan (are there two of you?),your comments are, for me, very insightful. Thank you.

We had Golda Meir (hope that spelling is correct) and Margaret Thasher in other countries. We have Condi Rice here. Very powerful women and no one went crazy in the Muslim world. The Muslims are angry at our politics - that would be our politics for over 20 years and we can blame both Democrats and Republicans. George W. put the cherry on top of the icing that was on top of the cake which represents our "we know best"attitude we think we have the right to drive over other countries. So a woman president doesn't worry me at all. My ONLY concern with Hilary is the one expressed by a couple other writers here - she'll get pulled under by the past when the Republicans do their standard smear campaign. It's amazing but lots of people fall for it.

Politicians as liars - where's the news there? Geffen's quote actually indicates that "all politicians lie" and then followed up with "the Clintons are good at it." If we accept his comment about the Clintons, then we will have the accept his comment about politicians. Now, an exercise in logic .... if we are accepting that all politicians lie then wouldn't it be a good idea to have one that is good at it? My summation here would be to ignore unsubstantiated comments by everyone who makes them. Lots of people take pot shots because they have an ax to grind.

Who's old enough to remember the chatter about John F. Kennedy being a Catholic? My, my there was such a fuss. It just fizzled away after his election. So a Muslim president doesn't worry me at all.

Our next president will be elected by campaigning on the platform of ending our invasion of Iraq. The facts are in and they say this war can NEVER be won militarily. The Iraqi Study group said so, the Iraqi's, both civilians and leaders, are saying so, our military leaders are saying so. Only Bush and his yes (wo)men are trying to fit their strategy of escalation into Iraq. It just doesn't fit and the majority of people who actually vote, also say so.

Now, as for you GregL - you say "ho hum" and then indicate you aren't gonna vote. So - who's listening to you? Go away!

Feb 24, 2007 at 01:02 PM : It's...

It's like...TehachapiMan, Man!

lol

Enjoyed your post, Lori...

Feb 24, 2007 at 02:02 PM : LoriMorales, can you...

LoriMorales, can you please show me where I said I wasn't going to vote? I always vote because I have that right and want to exercise it. It is the one 'voice' I have to try to make change. Maybe you misunderstood my frustration with politics as an indicator that I don't or won't vote.

I thought this was an area to express ideas and opinions. Is it necessary to get nasty? What's funny is that our viewpoints aren't that far off, but obviously I got you wound up somehow.

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:02 PM : Hey there GregL - I...

Hey there GregL - I quote "I don't really care WHO becomes president." That's where I got that crazy idea that you didn't care - I wasn't wound up - it was meant to be funny. I missed the mark.

I extrapolated (apparently, incorrectly) that you don't care enough to vote. Sorry ........ please continue to express your ideas and opinions. It's all good - no worries ........

Better now?

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:02 PM : Islandgirl ---- VERY...

Islandgirl ---- VERY informational. I did not know about these fabulous women. Love your examples. It is a little disturbing hearing from some individuals about their fear of powerful women. What year is this again?

Feb 24, 2007 at 05:02 PM : Yes, MUCH better now,...

Yes, MUCH better now, thanks! :) I know it is hard sometimes to convey thoughts when writing instead of speaking, and easy to misunderstand others. Maybe more blogging will help me refine that technique. Thanks again. GL

Feb 24, 2007 at 09:02 PM : America is a...

America is a country that makes a lot of mistakes and this time around, she is prepared to make a huge and expensive mistake and that mistake will be NOT VOTING OBAMA INTO OFFICE.

Feb 25, 2007 at 11:02 AM : chpcvis -&...

chpcvis - "Obama is subliminally using race as his "in". He calls himself black because it benefits him, however he's half white and raised in a white household." Do you know any mixed race people personally? In our society , not just politics, if you are mixed with a authenticity that has dominate features, you are that race. It doesn't matter if you are mixed with white, or what kind of household you are raised in. Don't you think if Obama called himself WHITE people would have a hay day with that? Unfortunately this is our society.

Feb 25, 2007 at 01:02 PM : Thanks LoriMorales,...

Thanks LoriMorales, islandgirl and TehachapiManMan for your posts illustrating that perceptions about gender and race are at best, 20th century excuses for not empowering PEOPLE instead of Parties and PACS with the most money and influence.

Feb 25, 2007 at 03:02 PM : Colitas - nice call on...

Colitas - nice call on chpcvis. I was just trying to ignore those comments.

Feb 25, 2007 at 07:02 PM : Colitis Do you...

Colitis

Do you know any mixed race people personally? Yes, I do, my grandchildren.....

In our society , not just politics, if you are mixed with a authenticity that has dominate features, you are that race. It doesn't matter if you are mixed with white, or what kind of household you are raised in. That's just your opinion and total BS. There's no stigma to being of mixed race or heritage. To claim only one or the other is to show some degree of disdain for the other.

Don't you think if Obama called himself WHITE people would have a hay day with that? Sure, because it would not be true, he's if mixed heritage.

My point was that he is playing the politically correct advantage of calling himself black.

He has no experience to speak of. He has 2 years as a US Senator, won in an election where his opponent dropped out at the last minute and the replacement candidate only had a few weeks to campaign.

Do you think if he were anyone else he would be considered a viable candidate at all.

The only thing he has going is the fact that he's the latest "fad" of the liberal left.

It's chic to support Obama.

Feb 25, 2007 at 09:02 PM : chpcvis - what kind of...

chpcvis - what kind of experience were you looking for exactly? Maybe you think we should send the "gipper" back in there to win one for the mixed-race team American has become? T8erboy's post about electing Reagan probably raised your good ol' flag a bit...now there'sexperience - a democrat - turned actor - turned republican who felled the pinkos single handed. It's pretty obvious what side of the Mason-Dixon hooded party line you'll vote. Maybe Obama or even Bill's little filly will give you a good ride for yer money. Yeehaw!

Oh, and for the record, there's a big difference between the "warm smell of colitas" and "colitis"

Feb 25, 2007 at 11:02 PM : anonymous I...

anonymous

I won't respond to any of your questions because (1) They're stupid (2) I don't chose to debate with anyone who hides their identity.

Feb 26, 2007 at 12:02 AM :

Feb 26, 2007 at 08:02 AM : chpcvis -...

chpcvis - "There's no stigma to being of mixed race or heritage. To claim only one or the other is to show some degree of disdain for the other." I never said this in my blog, wow, it's amazing what people "read between the lines". Yes, your comments are your opinion, but mine are not BS. I didn't say people treated mixed race differently, however I believe people do. Again, to repeat myself, if you are half black/half white people see you as black, if you are half Asian/half white people see you as Asian, etc. I have a friend, which some of you know, heritage is from Panama, but people always said the Mexican girl. People see the first features and assume. I am not alone in this. As for you grandchildren, good for you, but are they old enough to get public scrutiny yet? What do they list themselves on their Driver's License? YOUR ARROGANCE IS SO FLIPPING AMAZING. Is Hale Berry black or white, how about the Rock, how about Bruce Lee? I can go on and on but it is useless with a mind like yours. And to reply to you message to anonymous, you have a very unusual name Mr. Chpcvis!!! Please, the majority on this site are aliases. I mean do you think parents name me an inflammation of the intestine? Oh, yeah, you got that wrong too didn't you. I am going stop now before I say something that gets me kick off this site.

Anonymous--Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Feb 26, 2007 at 11:02 AM : Hey colitas,...

Hey colitas, don't let chpcvis get to you. Anyone who's read any of chpvcis' posts knows the only thing he's hiding is the pointy white hood - and clearly not doing such a good job of it. And by the way chpvcis, I wasn't attempting to debate. It's called sarcasm and a "superior whit" - just like "white" without the 'e.'
Anyhow, I know who I am and that's all that really matters.

Feb 26, 2007 at 12:02 PM : To...

To paraphrase a great and wise man " I believe I'm being judged not by the content of my character, but the color of my flag"

Feb 26, 2007 at 02:02 PM : if it quacks like a...

if it quacks like a duck...leopards and spots...yadayada, whatever.

Feb 26, 2007 at 02:02 PM : Gee, this site is so...

Gee, this site is so much fun. chpcvis - you got in trouble because of your "Hilary is power hungry" and "Obama is subliminally using his race as his in."

Both of these statements can be questioned on so many levels, but I'm not sure it would do any good. But, for the record - what politician can you name that doesn't thoughally enjoy their power? Does that mean their position of power is the only reason they go into political life? If so - then all politicians would have to be put in the same category as Hilary and as that point, what difference does it make?

We have so many mixed ethnicities in our family that I don't know where to begin. But, I will tell you that our half black family members are considered black by society and no big deal. Our half latino family members consider themselves hispanic by society and it is no big deal. We have several family members that are half asian - some appear very asian and are considered by society as asian. Those that don't look asian - people assume they are white and friends, neighbors and work associates are usually advised at some point of their etnicity. No big deal.

Did that crazy Alberto Gonzalez use his race? What else could have gotten him the job because he is just this side of stupid ..... talk about a freightening individual. But - I don't think most people consider his race when they think of him a fool. He is just a plain ole, run-of-the-mill Bush cronnie fool.

Feb 26, 2007 at 02:02 PM : Lori, did you take at...

Lori, did you take at look at this web page from the other blog???, what is your opinion of Hillary after reading all of the accounts on this page?

http://prorev.com/hillary.htm

Feb 26, 2007 at 03:02 PM : LoriMorales - Thanks...

LoriMorales - Thanks for putting the info about the ethnicities, that was point with chpcvis. Your right it is not a big deal to your family and probably most people, I just got angry on th BS comment because it's not an opinion that I have, it's society. Like I said the dominant characteristic is what people/society believes. Thanks again for responding from a personal experience.

Feb 26, 2007 at 03:02 PM : Anonymous - That is...

Anonymous - That is funny stuff "It's called sarcasm and a "superior whit" - just like "white" without the 'e.' " Thanks for making laugh out loud.

Mar 6, 2007 at 01:03 AM : I did read all the...

I did read all the exepts from Hilary's past. I'll say it again .... she comes with a lot a baggage. Some deserved, but ya know, some of it is just unproven claims, just like it was when it came out 25 years ago. That whole White Water thing - nothing surfaced, let it go already. I'll say it again, I can't help myself, I like seeing smart, strong women succeed. But, and I repeat, I don't think she'll make it through the primaries because of the baggage that is deserved.

It is hard to remember and accept the baggage that comes with all our representatives because our current system causes them to "sell their soul" to the highest bidder in order to get into office. The devil then comes to collect - and he is paid with our lives and our treasury - more specifically - my cousins blood and about 1/3 of my hardworking salary.

Now, just so you have some horrible facts about our current President, the whole Walter Reed Hospital fiasco is connected with Halliburton. That's that company that Cheney sold his soul to. Honestly - shouldn't someone string someone up! Support our troops! What does that mean to this administration?

Note: Fiasco is the name of another book written about the horror we made in Iraq.