Obama supports infanticide - - concerned's Blog - Tehachapi News

Feb 18, 2008 at 01:02 PM : Jesus can vote?

Jesus can vote?

Feb 18, 2008 at 03:02 PM : Nope....but I...

Nope....but I can...and not for him.

Feb 18, 2008 at 04:02 PM : OH....and I was under...

OH....and I was under the assumption, according to another poster, that we weren't allowed to talk badly about other people on these posts if they weren't here to stick up for themselves...or am I mistaken?

Feb 18, 2008 at 04:02 PM : We are supposed to...

We are supposed to believe that a nurse found a living baby among soiled linens and did nothing to save its life? We are supposed to believe that a hospital was putting live babies on shelves and allowing them to die? How many hours did they languish, often able to cry and wave their arms? This is ridiculous. If anything like that had ever occurred the nurse would have been required to notify law enforcement at the very least. Does anyone really think Alan Keyes has any grasp on reality? The guy is a flake and this story is pure conjecture.

Feb 18, 2008 at 05:02 PM : Thank you TK for...

Thank you TK for catching this. I hafe ass read this earlier and wanted to comment on it. This is the far right poor attempt at discredit Obama and to further their distorted views.

Feb 18, 2008 at 05:02 PM : This story is...

This story is seriously flawed, anyone who is of sound mind should second guess it, TK is right, this is ridiculous, this woman "held a live aborted baby until he died" and just stood there doing nothing? I don't think so. Who cares who Jesus would or wouldn't vote for, he's not around to vote or speak for himself, so the statement "Jesus wouldn't vote for Barack Obama" is purely subjective.

Don't let the word "infanticide" scare you either, anyone supporting the death penalty is also supporting "homocide" but it's never referred to as that...also any pro-lifer who supports the death penalty should think about being a little less hypocritical and a little more consistent.

Feb 18, 2008 at 05:02 PM : Should have known all...

Should have known all the liberal baby killers wouldn't pass up this opportunity to post on this blog. It is only flawed in the eyes of the immoral, who agree with killing innocent children because it either inconvienince their life, or they are to sick to want take care of a child that might have defects or diseases. Once again the liberals don't agree and they come out trying to discredit. rm6 I am a real pro lifer and I am agains tthe death penalty. Are you against the death penalty, but for killing children? gube, Obama does enough to discredit himself, why don't you go back to talking to yourself on your own blog.

Feb 18, 2008 at 09:02 PM : concerned thanks for...

concerned thanks for the suggestion but I think I'll stay here and comment. First of all just because we all think that your post is ridiculously stupid and unreal doesn't mean we are baby killer's. That's a pretty strong accusation to make. I can't personally speak for TK or rm6 but I have NEVER killed a baby and I really do not think either one of them has either.

concerned you are following the republicans playbook to the tee. Tell everybody why they should be scared and who's to blame.

Feb 18, 2008 at 09:02 PM : haha liberal baby...

haha liberal baby killers, that's a good one, who the hell are you to judge who is moral or immoral?...nope, I support abortion rights, the death penalty, and the use of embyonic stem cells for scientific research...killing humans across the board if you want to be blunt...

Stanek didn't "discover babies were being aborted alive and shelved to die in soiled utility rooms in Illinois," she took one of the live aborted babies and held it while it died in a Soiled Utility Room, which is a special room in a hospital that is equipped with a collection point for soiled goods, a hand wash basin, a flusher disinfector (empties, cleans, and disinfects bedpans, urine bottles, etc), and a clean storage area. Also it's quite a ridiculous jump to say that because Obama voted against the bill for fear it might infringe on someone's rights, he supports the killing of babies.

Feb 18, 2008 at 10:02 PM : Stabek is a stanch...

Stabek is a stanch anti abortionist and she as a nurse, chose to work in an facility that did abortions. Nurses are not forced to work in an area that he/she are morally opposed to. I agree, rm6, that she didn't "discover babies being aborted." Late term abortions are usually done to save the life of the mother. What is better, to have both the fetus and mom die? Occasionally they are done because the baby is either born without a brain (micro-cephalic) or because the baby has a severe genetic problem and will die at birth. It is a sad fact, but not all babies can be fixed or saved. And the times that I have seen babies born very prematurely or under these conditions, any available staff member will cradle, sing and rock this babies til they die. Nurses, doctors, housekeeping, and unit secretaries will hold them like they were their own babies until they are gone. Unfortunately, it sometimes has to be done in the soiled utility room to avoid exposing the situation to the other patients and visitors. The babies I rocked and held will be forever etched in my memory.

Feb 18, 2008 at 10:02 PM : WOW awsmom your...

WOW awsmom your comment gave me chills. Once again my eyes are opened to a piece of the real world that i didn't really know existed. Thanks for sharing that.

Feb 19, 2008 at 09:02 AM : Awsmom- Where are...

Awsmom- Where are these babies parents?? And the times that I have seen babies born very prematurely or under these conditions, any available staff member will cradle, sing and rock this babies til they die. Nurses, doctors, housekeeping, and unit secretaries will hold them like they were their own babies until they are gone. This is just very strange to me. Why wouldn't the parents want to be with their child instead of some stranger or is this a choice the hospital makes for them?? All I know is if I had a sick child you better believe I'd be holding it until it died and if I knew that someone else took this privilege from me I'd be raising hell. I am not trying to take anything away from you, but unfortunately I have been exposed to the ugly side of medicine and they will try to justify anything.....even killing healthy babies.

Oh and RM6, Obama is a baby killer supporter he's even admitted it. Just read his stance on abortion. Anyone that supports partial birth abortion is a baby killer supporter plain and simple. What else would you call sucking out the brains of a child that could have otherwise survived??

Feb 19, 2008 at 09:02 AM : I had never heard of...

I had never heard of partial birth abortion until recently. I support the death penalty 100% but I simply cannot agree with partial birth abortion. It turns my stomach to think about that. I'm not so certain I agree with the factuality of the post, but I definately cannot support partial birth abortion.

Feb 19, 2008 at 09:02 AM : I'm disturbed by...

I'm disturbed by the folks who claim not to know much about late-term abortions & yet only research one side of the argument to form an opinion. It leads me to believe that you already had your mind made up about the issue.

Take a look at real women who've had to face this decision. It's preposterous to believe a woman goes through 8 months of a pregnancy, only to decide one morning that she'd rather not have a healthy baby. There's always a medical reason to late-term abort, ladies & gentlemen.

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2046/context/archive

"If the ban were in place in 1995, Tammy Watts would likely be dead, she says.

In March of that year, Watts was in the eighth month of a much-wanted pregnancy and was eagerly anticipating the birth of her first child. During a routine ultrasound (the only way to detect abnormalities that require late-term abortion), she discovered her baby had Trisomy 13, a chromosomal abnormality that causes severe deformities and carries no hope of survival.

Because her baby was already dying and because this put her own life at stake, Watts had an intact dilation and extraction (D and X), the procedure that Bush condemns as "brutal."

"Losing my baby at the end of my pregnancy was agonizing," says Watts. "But the way the right deals with this issue makes it even worse. When I heard Bush mention 'partial birth abortion' during the debates, I thought 'How dare you stand there and tell flat-out lies?' There is no such thing as this procedure! Why won't the politicians listen to us?"

Tying Obama into this matter by calling him a "baby killer" is the ultimate in sleaze as far as I'm concerned. They must be really desperate if they're going for the sleaze factor before he even gets the nomination. I see that my vote for him was a correct choice; it's shining a light on the true nature of the Obama-haters, delusions & all.

Feb 19, 2008 at 09:02 AM : I am disturbed by...

I am disturbed by people who pretend to know what they are talking about also. Honestly you can tell me what you want! I HAVE been in this woman's position! DO you know what Trisomy 18 or 13 is oohchild?? If so how does it make the mother at risk?? I was told my child had Trisomy 18 or 13 and I was never told that it would affect my health NOT ONCE! While I feel sorry for her she had carried the baby for 8 months, at that point even if she had it then it could have survived (if it was healthy) so again how did this put her life in danger??

Feb 19, 2008 at 10:02 AM : There's always a...

There's always a medical reason to late-term abort, ladies & gentlemen.

Yup, there is now because there has to be one in order for it to happen. Whether or not that "reason" is valid is another story.

Feb 19, 2008 at 10:02 AM : countygirl just...

countygirl just because you had a bad diagnosis doesn't mean that's the norm. I am very happy that I never was faced with this tragic situation. I do believe that it is not used as a birth control tool. Do you know that they must kill the baby while the baby's head is still in the mother. Its only murder if you kill the baby after it is born.

Feb 19, 2008 at 11:02 AM : Let's try to put...

Let's try to put our emotions aside for a few min. Late term abortions are usually done to save the life of the mother. Women who undergo these procedures either have a preexisting medical condition such as organ transplantation, hypertension, or diabetes, just to name a few. Many have given birth without much complications before, but this particular pregnancy has pushed their bodies over the edge. Now they have developed eclampsia and are seizing from being pregnant or their high blood pressure has increased so high they are going to stroke. Or they went into renal failure from the pregnancy and their kidneys have shut down. The only way to save mom's life is to deliver the baby. Occasionally, a baby has a birth defect incompatible with life that is not diagnosed until late in the pregnancy. Some mothers and their doctors decide that they want to end the pregnancy instead of giving birth to a dead baby or go thru watching a baby struggle to stay alive,crying, listening to mewing sounds, seizing, turning blue, and have severe respiratory distress till the baby dies. Watching and waiting for a baby to die is something some parents just can not do. Occasionally these babies, esp. the girls as they are fighters, will live from a matter of min to 3 days til they die. Some parents just do not want to witness this and have a late term abortion and the baby is born dead. As to late term abortion babies being born alive, this does not happen.

Either way, it is a sad ending to what should have been a joyous event. Tears are shed not only by the mom but staff members as well. It's been many years since I have held a dying baby, but I can still remember their little faces and how they were cradled in my arms. Life is not fair. And sometimes it just plain sucks.

Feb 19, 2008 at 12:02 PM : Breathing that...

Breathing that rarified air up on that high horse countygirl is always on must make her dizzy at times. She never seems to climb down.

I wish she could speak to my friend who at four months was told after an ultrasound her baby had no brain. I suppose cg would have had her carry it to term anyway...then again, there seems to be a plethora of people born brainless.

Posting that illustration Smokey was so unnecessary. What was your point?

Feb 19, 2008 at 01:02 PM : Everyone here in the...

Everyone here in the US has choices. One of these choices is to have the freedom to decide whether or not these pregnancies should continue to term. Several yes ago a friend of mine was 5 mths pregnant then diagnosed with a baby that had a birth defect that was not compatable with life. I went with her as she explored the options available.--carry the baby to term or a late term abortion. We went to an MD who did late term abortions and she discused the situation with him. My friend ultimently chose to carry the baby to term and delivered a 4 lb girl. Instead of leaving the baby at the hospital to die as some parents do, she chose to leave the hospital with the baby 6 hrs after birth. She and her family cared for the baby at home til she died on day 3. She felt it was the right decsion for the baby and her family.

But she did have the right to chose what she felt what was right for the baby and her family. And the right to chose is something that is between a woman, her family and God. If she feels it is the right descion, who are we to tell her no?

Feb 19, 2008 at 01:02 PM : Didn't...

Didn't researchers try to find statistics on the so called 'partial birth abortion' and they could only find 3 procedures like that had been performed in the entire nation in 2005? Wow, the floodgates are open. This government listens to our phone conversations, reads our emails, tracks our internet surfing, and looks up our skirts. Enough already!

Feb 19, 2008 at 01:02 PM : Yes TK--they are...

Yes TK--they are rarely performed but are a necessary option that needs to remain available.

And countygirl and joty, my heart goes out to you and your friend.

And Joty--maybe I'm wrong and you CAN live without a brain. There are brainless wonders walking around everywhere!

Feb 19, 2008 at 01:02 PM : Thanks awsmom. My...

Thanks awsmom. My friend was lucky enough to get pregnant again and delivered a healthy baby boy. She made the choice however, that she would not have anymore.

lol, yes, brainless wonders indeed!!!!

I really didn't want to get involved in this blog because of who posted it and the link he provided. I should have just considered the source and gone on my way. But there is a certain smug someone who, well...let's just leave it at that. Sigh, I'm in trouble with my anger coach...

Feb 19, 2008 at 02:02 PM : Breathing that...

Breathing that rarified air up on that high horse countygirl is always on must make her dizzy at times. She never seems to climb down...........Ahhh, the hypocrisy!! Joty you really need to find a different angle this one is getting old. Would I have carried that baby to term?? ......yes, whether or not YOU think that makes me better than you friend is up to you because I never said such a thing.

Here is a good read. A reminder of what once was........... I highlighted the really interesting parts..........

Representative Charles T. Canady, Republican of Florida, who is to re-introduce the House bill this week, said in an interview, ''The President is getting in more and more of a box on this, defending something which fewer and fewer people are going to be willing to defend.''

The renewed hope for abortion opponents came last week in the unlikely form of Ron Fitzsimmons, executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, a lobbying group based in Alexandria, Va., that represents 200 abortion clinics.

He told American Medical News that he had ''lied through my teeth'' when he said earlier, in an effort to bolster the abortion-rights movement, that the ''partial-birth'' procedure was performed rarely, no more than 450 times a year.

Now he says it is performed more frequently, perhaps as often as 5,000 times, and in the late second trimester, not only in the third, as he and other abortion-rights advocates had led the public to believe. He also says it is performed on healthy women carrying healthy fetuses, not just on those in medical emergencies, as President Clinton has contended. Neither side is disputing the facts that Mr. Fitzsimmons presented.

Mr. Fitzsimmons's statements managed to reopen a seemingly intractable debate, heartening those who oppose abortion and sending abortion-rights advocates scrambling to try to salvage their credibility on Capitol Hill.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Representative Maurice D. Hinchey, a Democrat from Saugerties, N.Y., who supports abortion rights and voted with the President last year, was one of the few lawmakers who would discuss his reaction on the record. ''It has hurt our cause because all of us took what was told to us, at the time the bill was up, at face value,'' said Mr. Hinchey, a Catholic whose vote against the ban was an issue in his re-election. ''That we were given information that turns out to be deceitful will cause everyone to reassess their position.''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Richard Schwarz, chairman of obstetrics and gynecology at New York Methodist Hospital in Brooklyn, said the ''partial-birth'' method was developed in part as an alternative to dismembering the fetus, piece by piece, which he said could perforate the woman's uterus.

''Both sides of this issue have so badly overstated the case, it's ridiculous,'' Dr. Schwarz said. ''The President vetoed the bill because he was led to believe that this procedure was the only way to save the life of the woman. It may be the best way, but it's not the only way.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A04E5D61F31F930A35750C0A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Feb 19, 2008 at 02:02 PM : lol...hypocrisy...yawn...

lol...hypocrisy...yawn...that's funny coming from you, and talk about old and unoriginal.

Carrying to term a brainless litte body is pretty pathetic and extremely selfish, would you have a halo for your martyrdom? Your remark didn't surprise me. I'm glad my friend opted to do the right thing for herself and her family.

You, your religion AND the government need to stay the hell out of every woman's womb!!

Feb 19, 2008 at 02:02 PM : Right.....my religion....

Right.....my religion. Wow! You are a piece of work.

Feb 19, 2008 at 03:02 PM : This debate right here...

This debate right here is a perfect example of why this kind of decision should be made by the family involved, with the consultation of the doctors chosen to treat the particular medical problem.

Look at the kind of folks who have been involved in this kind of decision. Yes, countygirl, it's a decision. Aren't you glad you had a choice, instead of the government telling you what to do? What if the government had decided it's too risky to allow you to continue your pregnancy? Of course you knew best. As any pregnant woman knows best. That's my point! Why do you want to get the government involved in this kind of personal choice? Isn't that against the Republican Way? Why can't the government stay out of this, too? Who are you, countygirl, to determine what's "valid" in this sorrowful time?

I wouldn't go so far as to accuse you of riding a high horse. I would accuse you of trying to inflict your judgements on other people without consideration of that same judgement coming back to bite you. Leave medical decisions to the family, else you may regret your position later.

Feb 19, 2008 at 07:02 PM : Good point oohchild!...

Good point oohchild! Thank goodness we do live in a country where we are allowed to make our own decisions....not like in China where women are TOLD to eliminate pregnancies. Me? I could never get an abortion and would have to really think hard about a late term abortion. I do not believe it is what God intended for me to do. But I do strongly support every women's right to choose. What may be best for me may not be for you.

Sep 16, 2008 at 06:09 AM : The claim that...

The claim that "Obama supports infantacide" is false.

At issue is Obama's opposition to Illinois legislation in 2001, 2002 and 2003 that would have defined any aborted fetus that showed signs of life as a "born alive infant" entitled to legal protection, even if doctors believe it could not survive.

For in depth information on this all too typical right wing smear try Factcheck.org

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html

Sep 17, 2008 at 06:09 AM : Virtually...

Virtually all the rhetoric from the pro-lifers is either drastically hyperbolic or just plain false.

I asked my wife's OBGYN and several other friends in the medical community what they knew about PBA and none of them have ever personally known anyone who performed or received a "partial birth abortion" which apparently is only done under extraordinary circumstances and is so rare as to be nothing more than a "hot button" for the religious right.

Religion is no substitute for science or medicine no matter how many times you call me a killer or a fetus a child!

The Michael Scanlon, Jack Abramoff strategy was to raise "hot button" issues in order to "bring out the whackos" to vote ("whackos" in Scanlon's own words). You can look for this strategy in the upcoming November elections.