http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522 Here is excepts from an article on the internet from 2007 about Hall resisting Kern County residents attempt to provide paramedic service by firefighters.&nbsp; For the entire article, go to: http://mountainenterprise.com/atf.php?sid=2408&amp;current_edition=2008-02-15 &nbsp; At one point, Elliott indicated that only a small proportion of rural emergency medical calls required advanced life support (ALS) paramedic intervention, compared to 15.7 percent of urban emergency calls. Fire Chief Dennis Thompson said his figures showed that 15.1 percent of rural calls required paramedic assistance. Kern County Fire Fighters Union President Derek Robinson said that Hall Ambulance Service data shows that 47 percent of the calls in Pine Mountain required ALS intervention during the period studied. &quot;There may be less calls, but the percentage of calls where ALS care is needed seems to far exceed&quot; urban averages, he said. Robinson said Elliott's report was &quot;rife with errors, omissions and one-sided statistics,&quot; citing a study from Washington state showing that paramedic intervention for some kinds of heart attacks within eight minutes increases patient survival by 32 percent. With ALS delay of 20 minutes, survival decreases to only seven percent. &quot;What that means is that survivability quadruples with early intervention,&quot; he said, noting that Elliott's own study showed that paramedic firefighters could be on scene an average of 25 minutes sooner than ambulance paramedics to rural ares such as Pine Mountain. &nbsp; Thompson said that Kern County has the 10th largest fire department in the state (out of 600), but is the only department out of the top 15 in the state without a firefighter paramedic program. &nbsp; If 15% of calls require paramedics, then 15% of the time the pt. is not treated in a timely, appropriate manner before Hall Ambulance gets there--which can take up to an hour in a rural area. Here is excepts from an article on the internet from 2007 about Hall resisting Kern County residents attempt to provide paramedic service by firefighters.&nbsp; For the entire article, go to: http://mountainenterprise.com/atf.php?sid=2408&amp;current_edition=2008-02-15 &nbsp; At one point, Elliott indicated that only a small proportion of rural emergency medical calls required advanced life support (ALS) paramedic intervention, compared to 15.7 percent of urban emergency calls. Fire Chief Dennis Thompson said his figures showed that 15.1 percent of rural calls required paramedic assistance. Kern County Fire Fighters Union President Derek Robinson said that Hall Ambulance Service data shows that 47 percent of the calls in Pine Mountain required ALS intervention during the period studied. &quot;There may be less calls, but the percentage of calls where ALS care is needed seems to far exceed&quot; urban averages, he said. Robinson said Elliott's report was &quot;rife with errors, omissions and one-sided statistics,&quot; citing a study from Washington state showing that paramedic intervention for some kinds of heart attacks within eight minutes increases patient survival by 32 percent. With ALS delay of 20 minutes, survival decreases to only seven percent. &quot;What that means is that survivability quadruples with early intervention,&quot; he said, noting that Elliott's own study showed that paramedic firefighters could be on scene an average of 25 minutes sooner than ambulance paramedics to rural ares such as Pine Mountain. &nbsp; Thompson said that Kern County has the 10th largest fire department in the state (out of 600), but is the only department out of the top 15 in the state without a firefighter paramedic program. &nbsp; If 15% of calls require paramedics, then 15% of the time the pt. is not treated in a timely, appropriate manner before Hall Ambulance gets there--which can take up to an hour in a rural area. en-us <p>&nbsp;I have been a Paramedic for 16yrs and have worked in many different configurations of EMS delivery. &nbsp;And fact of the matter is with or without Paramedics in those areas the need for transport is what the residents need. &nbsp;Paramedics on a fire engine like their counterparts on a ambulance can start IV's give meds, and defibrillate and many other procedures, but fact of the matter is without transport they are useless. &nbsp;Honestly, the only thing a fire engine needs is a defibrillator, combi-tube, and an epi-pen. &nbsp;All the other stuff is pointless without transport. &nbsp;So a patient has chest pain, and the fire medic starts tx, then what.............wait, wait, wait and...... you know the rest. &nbsp;The medications do not cure the heart attack, the cath lab does that, and the only way to get to a cath lab is with an ambulance. &nbsp; The other issue and not pine mountain related but EMS related is there are too many Paramedics already in the field. &nbsp;More is not better. &nbsp;What it does do is decrease the skill level of the Paramedic as a whole. &nbsp;If you have four Paramedics standing around on-scene, only two really are doing the job, the other two hopefully assist with getting pt. meds, setting the gurney up, so on and so forth, but only two is what is needed. &nbsp;Now you make everyone a Paramedic it dilutes the quality of skill, and experience of the Paramedic. &nbsp;But unfortunately communities, and America in general think that if two is good lets have four, five, twenty..............My experience is that Engine Medics are not at the same level as Ambulance Medics, strictly because they do not do enough. &nbsp;The Ambulance Medics do it all, and especially if they are single function Paramedics. &nbsp;It is all they do and they are good at it because of that. &nbsp;Fire Department train to do primarily one thing, and that is fight fire, they are good at it, and should be. &nbsp;But when it comes to EMS it is a footnote and a necessary evil that is pushed upon them by the brass, public, and a bonus of 15% or higher. &nbsp;I have been a preceptor and EMS instructor of 12 of the 16yrs as a Paramedic and most if not all the students primary reason for becoming Paramedics is to get hired on a Fire Department. &nbsp;Not to become an EMS professional, not because of a desire to do more for their patients, but to get hired? &nbsp;One current student got hired on a Fire Department that does not have Paramedics while in the middle of his clinical rotations, and he decided to quit? He got what he wanted and dropped his Medic training! &nbsp;What a waste. &nbsp;Maybe one day EMS will actually have Men and Women that want to be Paramedics again, instead of treating it as a footnote along their path to a career in the Fire Department. &nbsp;But the Public doesn't really care about that, specifically residents in Pine Mountain. &nbsp;To them a Paramedic is a Paramedic.&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198095 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198095 <p>&nbsp;I have been a Paramedic for 16yrs and have worked in many different configurations of EMS delivery. &nbsp;And fact of the matter is with or without Paramedics in those areas the need for transport is what the residents need. &nbsp;Paramedics on a fire engine like their counterparts on a ambulance can start IV's give meds, and defibrillate and many other procedures, but fact of the matter is without transport they are useless. &nbsp;Honestly, the only thing a fire engine needs is a defibrillator, combi-tube, and an epi-pen. &nbsp;All the other stuff is pointless without transport. &nbsp;So a patient has chest pain, and the fire medic starts tx, then what.............wait, wait, wait and...... you know the rest. &nbsp;The medications do not cure the heart attack, the cath lab does that, and the only way to get to a cath lab is with an ambulance. &nbsp; The other issue and not pine mountain related but EMS related is there are too many Paramedics already in the field. &nbsp;More is not better. &nbsp;What it does do is decrease the skill level of the Paramedic as a whole. &nbsp;If you have four Paramedics standing around on-scene, only two really are doing the job, the other two hopefully assist with getting pt. meds, setting the gurney up, so on and so forth, but only two is what is needed. &nbsp;Now you make everyone a Paramedic it dilutes the quality of skill, and experience of the Paramedic. &nbsp;But unfortunately communities, and America in general think that if two is good lets have four, five, twenty..............My experience is that Engine Medics are not at the same level as Ambulance Medics, strictly because they do not do enough. &nbsp;The Ambulance Medics do it all, and especially if they are single function Paramedics. &nbsp;It is all they do and they are good at it because of that. &nbsp;Fire Department train to do primarily one thing, and that is fight fire, they are good at it, and should be. &nbsp;But when it comes to EMS it is a footnote and a necessary evil that is pushed upon them by the brass, public, and a bonus of 15% or higher. &nbsp;I have been a preceptor and EMS instructor of 12 of the 16yrs as a Paramedic and most if not all the students primary reason for becoming Paramedics is to get hired on a Fire Department. &nbsp;Not to become an EMS professional, not because of a desire to do more for their patients, but to get hired? &nbsp;One current student got hired on a Fire Department that does not have Paramedics while in the middle of his clinical rotations, and he decided to quit? He got what he wanted and dropped his Medic training! &nbsp;What a waste. &nbsp;Maybe one day EMS will actually have Men and Women that want to be Paramedics again, instead of treating it as a footnote along their path to a career in the Fire Department. &nbsp;But the Public doesn't really care about that, specifically residents in Pine Mountain. &nbsp;To them a Paramedic is a Paramedic.&nbsp;</p> <p>I can tell you are not thinking on the best interest of the pt.&nbsp; Why should a pt. wait an hr. with CP to be treated?&nbsp; A nitroglycerin, and MS and other ACLS meds can go a long way in vasodilating a pt. and may make the difference of life or death. Waiting for a paramedic for an hr wwith a pt in SVT just doesn't make sense. What about a pt. with CHF--Lasix can be given and diuresis them before the ambulance gets there.&nbsp; If Kern COunty firefighters were medics, they could treat STABILIZE the pt BEFORE the ambulance gets there--start an IV, administer fluids or meds and have the pt. ready to transport. Hall gets there and all that needs to be done is to load them on the gurney, give report and transport. On scene time can be cut to a few min--no extra time is needed to treat on scene.&nbsp; Just load and go. If anything, in rural areas the ambulance medics lose there skills as is all they do is reassess and transport as the initial treatment and skills are done when they get there.</p> <p>So if what you are saying is that all they need is transport, and medics don't make a difference in the first 30 min to an hr of a medical emergency, then maybe we should be advising people in rural areas NOT TO CALL 911.&nbsp;&nbsp; They could be put in a private vehicle and someone could drive them to the hospital and be there in 20 to 30 min. versus calling 911, waiting 20 min to an hr for an ambulance, then another 10 min on scene time, then another 20 min to the hospital.&nbsp;&nbsp; MMMmmm be at a hospital in 30 min POV or wait up to 1 for paramedic treatment......no brainer.</p> <p>If paramedics are not needed, then why do all the other top 15 fire depts. in the state have paramedic/firefighters?&nbsp; 3/4 of the firedept calls are for EMS so why shouldn't they be able to treat patients appropriately?&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198187 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198187 <p>I can tell you are not thinking on the best interest of the pt.&nbsp; Why should a pt. wait an hr. with CP to be treated?&nbsp; A nitroglycerin, and MS and other ACLS meds can go a long way in vasodilating a pt. and may make the difference of life or death. Waiting for a paramedic for an hr wwith a pt in SVT just doesn't make sense. What about a pt. with CHF--Lasix can be given and diuresis them before the ambulance gets there.&nbsp; If Kern COunty firefighters were medics, they could treat STABILIZE the pt BEFORE the ambulance gets there--start an IV, administer fluids or meds and have the pt. ready to transport. Hall gets there and all that needs to be done is to load them on the gurney, give report and transport. On scene time can be cut to a few min--no extra time is needed to treat on scene.&nbsp; Just load and go. If anything, in rural areas the ambulance medics lose there skills as is all they do is reassess and transport as the initial treatment and skills are done when they get there.</p> <p>So if what you are saying is that all they need is transport, and medics don't make a difference in the first 30 min to an hr of a medical emergency, then maybe we should be advising people in rural areas NOT TO CALL 911.&nbsp;&nbsp; They could be put in a private vehicle and someone could drive them to the hospital and be there in 20 to 30 min. versus calling 911, waiting 20 min to an hr for an ambulance, then another 10 min on scene time, then another 20 min to the hospital.&nbsp;&nbsp; MMMmmm be at a hospital in 30 min POV or wait up to 1 for paramedic treatment......no brainer.</p> <p>If paramedics are not needed, then why do all the other top 15 fire depts. in the state have paramedic/firefighters?&nbsp; 3/4 of the firedept calls are for EMS so why shouldn't they be able to treat patients appropriately?&nbsp;</p> <p>Exactly, why shouldn't they treat pt's appropriately? &nbsp;Thank you. &nbsp;The reason they never treat pt's appropriately is EMS to a Fire Department is a necessary way for them to stay &nbsp;a float. &nbsp;They cant sustain themselves on the basis of being a &quot;FIRE DEPARTMENT&quot;. &nbsp;But the term &quot;Fire Department&quot; is rediculous. &nbsp;They are EMS departments that fight an occasional fire. &nbsp;But they don't treat it that way. &nbsp;When recruits go to a fire academy they are fire fighters first and paramedics second? &nbsp;Yet as you stated 3/4's of their call volume are for EMS. &nbsp;Are they just lying to themselves? &nbsp;Are they in some sort of denial? &nbsp;Yes they have Paramedics, it creates revenue for them, and keeps them in business, but when you want quality and not quantity you call a single function Paramedic only. &nbsp;</p> <p>And as for not having the pt's best interests at heart, were not talking about a patient. &nbsp;We are talking about a region/area with a call volume and population that does not justify having full time around the clock Paramedics. &nbsp;Those men and women if staffed there would be lucky to see an SVT, CHF, V-tach, or any other critical rhythm. &nbsp;Your making it sound like SVT's, CHF's, MI's are being handed out like like bread in a soup line. &nbsp;Not reality. &nbsp;Urban Paramedics are lucky if they see these things once a month, let alone or a regular basis. &nbsp;Again read the part about skill level, and quality of care in my previous post. &nbsp;You sound like you don't care about the quality of care. &nbsp;As long as you have the title in the area you feel safe and secure. &nbsp;Truth is it looks good on paper, but in reality is a nightmare, and an accident waiting to happen. &nbsp; You chose to live in a Led box, and now you complain your x-ray vision doesn't work. &nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198304 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198304 <p>Exactly, why shouldn't they treat pt's appropriately? &nbsp;Thank you. &nbsp;The reason they never treat pt's appropriately is EMS to a Fire Department is a necessary way for them to stay &nbsp;a float. &nbsp;They cant sustain themselves on the basis of being a &quot;FIRE DEPARTMENT&quot;. &nbsp;But the term &quot;Fire Department&quot; is rediculous. &nbsp;They are EMS departments that fight an occasional fire. &nbsp;But they don't treat it that way. &nbsp;When recruits go to a fire academy they are fire fighters first and paramedics second? &nbsp;Yet as you stated 3/4's of their call volume are for EMS. &nbsp;Are they just lying to themselves? &nbsp;Are they in some sort of denial? &nbsp;Yes they have Paramedics, it creates revenue for them, and keeps them in business, but when you want quality and not quantity you call a single function Paramedic only. &nbsp;</p> <p>And as for not having the pt's best interests at heart, were not talking about a patient. &nbsp;We are talking about a region/area with a call volume and population that does not justify having full time around the clock Paramedics. &nbsp;Those men and women if staffed there would be lucky to see an SVT, CHF, V-tach, or any other critical rhythm. &nbsp;Your making it sound like SVT's, CHF's, MI's are being handed out like like bread in a soup line. &nbsp;Not reality. &nbsp;Urban Paramedics are lucky if they see these things once a month, let alone or a regular basis. &nbsp;Again read the part about skill level, and quality of care in my previous post. &nbsp;You sound like you don't care about the quality of care. &nbsp;As long as you have the title in the area you feel safe and secure. &nbsp;Truth is it looks good on paper, but in reality is a nightmare, and an accident waiting to happen. &nbsp; You chose to live in a Led box, and now you complain your x-ray vision doesn't work. &nbsp;</p> <p>Ventura- It's obvious your beef is with fire departments in general. There are medics that love being medics that work for the fire dept because they pay more. Do you know how much Harvey Hall pays his medics?? It's shameful! I'm not sure you <i>really</i> know what is going on with Kern's outlying areas. You just saw fire medics and went off.  </p> <p><i>And as for not having the pt's best interests at heart, were not talking about a patient. </i></p> <p>That is easy for you to say you don't live in these areas I'm assuming.</p> <p><i>Truth is it looks good on paper, but in reality is a nightmare, and an accident waiting to happen. </i></p> <p>Tell that to the firefighters and family members of the person dying on the ground because it took the "quality " medics 30, 45, an hour to arrive! What do you call waiting extended periods of time for an ambulance to arrive?? Hum, I'd call it.......................an accident waiting to happen. Only if they don't pass this program it's no longer an accident.......our supervisors decided that you or your family members were not worth it!!</p> <p>I honestly don't understand your thinking about transport. Yes, the fire dept. can't transport, but the ambulance ONCE it gets there can, and the fire dept would be able to stabilize them until they arrive.  So you think it's better for a patient to suffer until an ambulance gets there instead of getting care as soon as possible??? Please tell me this is fear talking and veteran medics or any medic for that matter dosen't really think this way.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198413 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198413 <p>Ventura- It's obvious your beef is with fire departments in general. There are medics that love being medics that work for the fire dept because they pay more. Do you know how much Harvey Hall pays his medics?? It's shameful! I'm not sure you <i>really</i> know what is going on with Kern's outlying areas. You just saw fire medics and went off.  </p> <p><i>And as for not having the pt's best interests at heart, were not talking about a patient. </i></p> <p>That is easy for you to say you don't live in these areas I'm assuming.</p> <p><i>Truth is it looks good on paper, but in reality is a nightmare, and an accident waiting to happen. </i></p> <p>Tell that to the firefighters and family members of the person dying on the ground because it took the "quality " medics 30, 45, an hour to arrive! What do you call waiting extended periods of time for an ambulance to arrive?? Hum, I'd call it.......................an accident waiting to happen. Only if they don't pass this program it's no longer an accident.......our supervisors decided that you or your family members were not worth it!!</p> <p>I honestly don't understand your thinking about transport. Yes, the fire dept. can't transport, but the ambulance ONCE it gets there can, and the fire dept would be able to stabilize them until they arrive.  So you think it's better for a patient to suffer until an ambulance gets there instead of getting care as soon as possible??? Please tell me this is fear talking and veteran medics or any medic for that matter dosen't really think this way.</p> <p><b><span style="color: #ff99cc"><span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="font-family: Courier New"><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size: medium">I know a paramedic that works for halls and he gets paid under 12 dollars a hour. Harvey hall is a cheap Bastard that calls all the shots when it comes to EMS.</span></span></span></span></span></b></p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198421 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198421 <p><b><span style="color: #ff99cc"><span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="font-family: Courier New"><span style="font-family: Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size: medium">I know a paramedic that works for halls and he gets paid under 12 dollars a hour. Harvey hall is a cheap Bastard that calls all the shots when it comes to EMS.</span></span></span></span></span></b></p> <p>Thank you Anonnymous I couldn't agree more!</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198425 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198425 <p>Thank you Anonnymous I couldn't agree more!</p> <p>&nbsp;Stabilize what? &nbsp;SVT, CHF, and so on and so...........again like most of the public, you think that by placing a Paramedic under your pillow the safety fairy will appear and make things all better, but the reality again is that those calls do not happen enough even in a busy urban EMS system. &nbsp;And calls are what Medics need. &nbsp;Not to sit around and collect 15% for doing nothing but pasting a title on the side of a fire engine just so you have the allusion of safety. &nbsp;You think you see it from a service point of view, but in reality you don't want quality you want quantity. &nbsp;Doesn't do you much good when that engine medic that has never been on a SVT, or V-tach except for a mannequin, cardioverts EKG artifact. &nbsp;Im sure you will be the first one claiming law suit. &nbsp;But in reality your the one that wanted it in the first place. &nbsp;</p> <p>Oh, and as for having a beef with the fire department in general.......I speak from being in the field for 16yrs, and seeing first hand how they have treated what they call &quot;EMS&quot;. &nbsp; Again they are an EMS department in denial. &nbsp;That type of attitude, treating EMS as a footnote, is why they should not have Paramedics. &nbsp;Some other citizen on here acted like they had some amazing stats to wow me with, of course 3/4 of their call volume are medicals. &nbsp;They have no choice but to go on them, just like an ambulance has no choice. &nbsp;Your tones go off and you leave. &nbsp;The difference is medical calls is all an ambulance EMT or Paramedic trains for. &nbsp;Fire Fighters train 95% to fight fires, and 5% for medical calls. When the reality is 75-95% of your call volume is medical. Go figure. &nbsp;And like it or not that is fact. &nbsp;Spin all the yarn you want, wave the Fire Fighter flag high in the air, it doesn't change the reality of the situation. &nbsp;Now if the EMS/ occasional fire department trained for what they did most I wouldn't have a problem with it. &nbsp;But again they don't. &nbsp;And you will get some inexperienced boob up there that has no clue. &nbsp;But you probably will not care, as long as there is a paramedic sticker on the side of the fire engine. &nbsp;Quantity over quality. &nbsp;Sounds like a concerned citizen to me.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198456 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198456 <p>&nbsp;Stabilize what? &nbsp;SVT, CHF, and so on and so...........again like most of the public, you think that by placing a Paramedic under your pillow the safety fairy will appear and make things all better, but the reality again is that those calls do not happen enough even in a busy urban EMS system. &nbsp;And calls are what Medics need. &nbsp;Not to sit around and collect 15% for doing nothing but pasting a title on the side of a fire engine just so you have the allusion of safety. &nbsp;You think you see it from a service point of view, but in reality you don't want quality you want quantity. &nbsp;Doesn't do you much good when that engine medic that has never been on a SVT, or V-tach except for a mannequin, cardioverts EKG artifact. &nbsp;Im sure you will be the first one claiming law suit. &nbsp;But in reality your the one that wanted it in the first place. &nbsp;</p> <p>Oh, and as for having a beef with the fire department in general.......I speak from being in the field for 16yrs, and seeing first hand how they have treated what they call &quot;EMS&quot;. &nbsp; Again they are an EMS department in denial. &nbsp;That type of attitude, treating EMS as a footnote, is why they should not have Paramedics. &nbsp;Some other citizen on here acted like they had some amazing stats to wow me with, of course 3/4 of their call volume are medicals. &nbsp;They have no choice but to go on them, just like an ambulance has no choice. &nbsp;Your tones go off and you leave. &nbsp;The difference is medical calls is all an ambulance EMT or Paramedic trains for. &nbsp;Fire Fighters train 95% to fight fires, and 5% for medical calls. When the reality is 75-95% of your call volume is medical. Go figure. &nbsp;And like it or not that is fact. &nbsp;Spin all the yarn you want, wave the Fire Fighter flag high in the air, it doesn't change the reality of the situation. &nbsp;Now if the EMS/ occasional fire department trained for what they did most I wouldn't have a problem with it. &nbsp;But again they don't. &nbsp;And you will get some inexperienced boob up there that has no clue. &nbsp;But you probably will not care, as long as there is a paramedic sticker on the side of the fire engine. &nbsp;Quantity over quality. &nbsp;Sounds like a concerned citizen to me.</p> <p>Ventura, you are oozing with hatred of the fire dept. in your post.&nbsp; Your true colors are flying.&nbsp;&nbsp; Did you fail&nbsp; the fire dept exam years ago and have had to settle on a low paying paramedic position?</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198573 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198573 <p>Ventura, you are oozing with hatred of the fire dept. in your post.&nbsp; Your true colors are flying.&nbsp;&nbsp; Did you fail&nbsp; the fire dept exam years ago and have had to settle on a low paying paramedic position?</p> <p> Nope.  Never cared.  And have never taken or had the desire to take an exam.  I love being a Paramedic, but if you decide to make those fire fighters Paramedics you will not get people that love, and want to do the job.  And I will take it a step further and say that not all Fire Medics are poor, that is a blanket statement, and not totally true.  But what is true and maybe you can't understand this but the majority of Fire Medics are not good at EMS.  THEY TRAIN PRIMARILY TO BE FIRE FIGHTERS NOT PARAMEDICS.  Having a license does not a Paramedic make. I don't hate the fire department.  On the contrary they are good at doing what there title suggests.........FIGHTING FIRES.  But once again you obviously don't know what you are talking about and have resorted to presumptions.  I speak from experience, and, again, dealing with it on a daily basis.  You don't.  Walk in my shoes and maybe you might understand.  I get chastised for doing what I love and being proud of it.  Having others i.e. the Fire Department treat it as a necessary evil, and a way to increase revenue is sickening, and the citizens such as yourself eat it up.  If you want Fire EMS go for it.  I don't live their.  I just feel you do not understand how complex being a Paramedic is.  It's more than IV's, drugs, and ekg's.  If EMS/ the occasional fire department loved EMS as much as fighting fire and gave it the attention it deserves I wouldn't be writing this.  It's not hatred.  It's a lack of respect for something that deals directly with the outcome of some ones health and well being.  </p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198651 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198651 <p> Nope.  Never cared.  And have never taken or had the desire to take an exam.  I love being a Paramedic, but if you decide to make those fire fighters Paramedics you will not get people that love, and want to do the job.  And I will take it a step further and say that not all Fire Medics are poor, that is a blanket statement, and not totally true.  But what is true and maybe you can't understand this but the majority of Fire Medics are not good at EMS.  THEY TRAIN PRIMARILY TO BE FIRE FIGHTERS NOT PARAMEDICS.  Having a license does not a Paramedic make. I don't hate the fire department.  On the contrary they are good at doing what there title suggests.........FIGHTING FIRES.  But once again you obviously don't know what you are talking about and have resorted to presumptions.  I speak from experience, and, again, dealing with it on a daily basis.  You don't.  Walk in my shoes and maybe you might understand.  I get chastised for doing what I love and being proud of it.  Having others i.e. the Fire Department treat it as a necessary evil, and a way to increase revenue is sickening, and the citizens such as yourself eat it up.  If you want Fire EMS go for it.  I don't live their.  I just feel you do not understand how complex being a Paramedic is.  It's more than IV's, drugs, and ekg's.  If EMS/ the occasional fire department loved EMS as much as fighting fire and gave it the attention it deserves I wouldn't be writing this.  It's not hatred.  It's a lack of respect for something that deals directly with the outcome of some ones health and well being.  </p> <p>Exactly Ventura....You don't live here!! Let me guess you work in the LA area. Is it the county or city guys you have such disdain for?? Saying that all Fire Medics are&nbsp;bad at&nbsp;EMS and just a slight few&nbsp;are actually good that their job is an ignorant statement no matter how you look at it.&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198682 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198682 <p>Exactly Ventura....You don't live here!! Let me guess you work in the LA area. Is it the county or city guys you have such disdain for?? Saying that all Fire Medics are&nbsp;bad at&nbsp;EMS and just a slight few&nbsp;are actually good that their job is an ignorant statement no matter how you look at it.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;Once again I did not attack you. &nbsp;And I unlike yourself speak from experience. &nbsp;Your lack of knowledge about the in's and outs of EMS and the blind following of the Fire Department have clouded your judgement. &nbsp;In the case of Paramedics on Fire Engines what you don't know will kill you. &nbsp;Your ignorance is your bliss. &nbsp;Best of luck&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198694 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198694 <p>&nbsp;Once again I did not attack you. &nbsp;And I unlike yourself speak from experience. &nbsp;Your lack of knowledge about the in's and outs of EMS and the blind following of the Fire Department have clouded your judgement. &nbsp;In the case of Paramedics on Fire Engines what you don't know will kill you. &nbsp;Your ignorance is your bliss. &nbsp;Best of luck&nbsp;</p> <p>That's right we all know nothing about the fire dept. or medics on fire engines or anything.&nbsp;Thank goodness you swept in here and saved us all from&nbsp;blindly following the fire dept.&nbsp; Well I suppose your experience in the paramedic field makes you qualified to tell people what they do and do not know!!?? &nbsp;I can see why you have so many problems in your professional life.&nbsp;Wish you all the best Ventura.</p> <p>Where exactly did I say you attacked me???</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198707 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198707 <p>That's right we all know nothing about the fire dept. or medics on fire engines or anything.&nbsp;Thank goodness you swept in here and saved us all from&nbsp;blindly following the fire dept.&nbsp; Well I suppose your experience in the paramedic field makes you qualified to tell people what they do and do not know!!?? &nbsp;I can see why you have so many problems in your professional life.&nbsp;Wish you all the best Ventura.</p> <p>Where exactly did I say you attacked me???</p> <p>&nbsp;How come your so upset? &nbsp;I would say 16yrs in EMS all in the 911 system, &nbsp;makes me qualified to tell you what you do and do not know. &nbsp;Why? Because I do the job, and experience it first hand. &nbsp;I have no desire for Harvey Hall to continue to monopolize EMS in Kern County. &nbsp;But I do not want to see it bastardized by the Dual function thinking of the local EMS/occasional fire department. &nbsp;Implementing &nbsp;a third service Paramedic provider under the direction of Kern Co. EMS would be the best option for delivery of quality EMS. &nbsp;If you want great service and coverage then that is the best option. &nbsp;And if that is not possible, and the EMS/occasional fire department has to &nbsp;have Paramedics, implement single function Paramedics on ambulances. &nbsp;The profession of EMS should not be watered down, with fire fighting. &nbsp;EMS is it's own profession and it should be treated as such. &nbsp;And yes thank goodness I pissed you off enough to get you to respond to this most important issue. &nbsp;Not trying to save you. &nbsp;But maybe you will research options, and actually ask the all important questions of who, what, when, where, why, and how instead of being pissed at me for not pulling any punches. &nbsp;Best of luck.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198723 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198723 <p>&nbsp;How come your so upset? &nbsp;I would say 16yrs in EMS all in the 911 system, &nbsp;makes me qualified to tell you what you do and do not know. &nbsp;Why? Because I do the job, and experience it first hand. &nbsp;I have no desire for Harvey Hall to continue to monopolize EMS in Kern County. &nbsp;But I do not want to see it bastardized by the Dual function thinking of the local EMS/occasional fire department. &nbsp;Implementing &nbsp;a third service Paramedic provider under the direction of Kern Co. EMS would be the best option for delivery of quality EMS. &nbsp;If you want great service and coverage then that is the best option. &nbsp;And if that is not possible, and the EMS/occasional fire department has to &nbsp;have Paramedics, implement single function Paramedics on ambulances. &nbsp;The profession of EMS should not be watered down, with fire fighting. &nbsp;EMS is it's own profession and it should be treated as such. &nbsp;And yes thank goodness I pissed you off enough to get you to respond to this most important issue. &nbsp;Not trying to save you. &nbsp;But maybe you will research options, and actually ask the all important questions of who, what, when, where, why, and how instead of being pissed at me for not pulling any punches. &nbsp;Best of luck.</p> <p>Ventura I was a Firefighter AND the towns only paramedic for years in a rural area.&nbsp; We had the same senario--up to an hr for an ambulance and no ACLS til I was certified as a medic.&nbsp;&nbsp; Some of our calls were the routine BLS calls but there were many that if ACLS was not available for an hr., people would have died.&nbsp; Same exact senario here in the rural areas.&nbsp; What about a head on colllision out on the 202? You got 4 people seriously injured and all the firefighters, some of whom are already paramedics, are waiting for the ONE medic to show up.&nbsp; Then the ambulance medic shows up and has to do an ALS assessment/ start IV's etc. on all 4 pts. when that could have been done BEFORE the ambulance got there.&nbsp; Then they could load and GO!</p> <p>I have worked as a firefighter, as a firefighter/paramedic and as a paramedic for a private ambulance company that covered the Mogillon Rim.&nbsp; So I have seen this senario from all sides--something you have not done.&nbsp; And I have been in EMS since 1982 and have 26 years experience so I do know what works and what doesn't.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198797 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198797 <p>Ventura I was a Firefighter AND the towns only paramedic for years in a rural area.&nbsp; We had the same senario--up to an hr for an ambulance and no ACLS til I was certified as a medic.&nbsp;&nbsp; Some of our calls were the routine BLS calls but there were many that if ACLS was not available for an hr., people would have died.&nbsp; Same exact senario here in the rural areas.&nbsp; What about a head on colllision out on the 202? You got 4 people seriously injured and all the firefighters, some of whom are already paramedics, are waiting for the ONE medic to show up.&nbsp; Then the ambulance medic shows up and has to do an ALS assessment/ start IV's etc. on all 4 pts. when that could have been done BEFORE the ambulance got there.&nbsp; Then they could load and GO!</p> <p>I have worked as a firefighter, as a firefighter/paramedic and as a paramedic for a private ambulance company that covered the Mogillon Rim.&nbsp; So I have seen this senario from all sides--something you have not done.&nbsp; And I have been in EMS since 1982 and have 26 years experience so I do know what works and what doesn't.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Bastardized EMS? Ventura it is quite obvious&nbsp;you are biased on this issue. You have no credible reasoning for arguing against fire paramedics. If you&nbsp;knew much about the history of paramedic service you would know that LA County Fire&nbsp;has been&nbsp;providing the service for&nbsp;many years and&nbsp;continues to&nbsp;prove that fire medics are a valuable resource.&nbsp; The trend nation&nbsp;wide is to implement fire&nbsp;medics. Your&nbsp;reasoning is fallible and antiquated.&nbsp;There is no reason the same level&nbsp;of service could not be&nbsp;provided in Kern County as is elsewhere. I would suggest to you that you get off the typical private sector EMS mentality and start thinking of the well being of the patient instead of the financial gain of the private provider.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198944 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_198944 <p>Bastardized EMS? Ventura it is quite obvious&nbsp;you are biased on this issue. You have no credible reasoning for arguing against fire paramedics. If you&nbsp;knew much about the history of paramedic service you would know that LA County Fire&nbsp;has been&nbsp;providing the service for&nbsp;many years and&nbsp;continues to&nbsp;prove that fire medics are a valuable resource.&nbsp; The trend nation&nbsp;wide is to implement fire&nbsp;medics. Your&nbsp;reasoning is fallible and antiquated.&nbsp;There is no reason the same level&nbsp;of service could not be&nbsp;provided in Kern County as is elsewhere. I would suggest to you that you get off the typical private sector EMS mentality and start thinking of the well being of the patient instead of the financial gain of the private provider.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p> So just because LA County is doing it means everyone should do it?  Can't you think for yourself?  EMS is not cut and paste.  And explain how my view of EMS is antiquated.  Third service EMS is actually progressive, and something that many municipalities do not consider, because of the "antiquated" cut and paste, or better said that everyone is doing it attitude.  You obviously have not read my previous posts so you are making a redundant argument. One that was already addressed.  </p> <p>The other issue is the motivations behind LA Counties initial Paramedic Squads was one of excitement, of something new something progressive.  Those Fire/Medics motivations were one of doing more for their patients, and took a risk on a new program that might not have taken.  LA County did not have to mandate individuals to go to Medic school, they did not need to lure them with pay bonuses.  Those individuals were true Paramedics through and through.  They cared about the QUALITY of the pt. care they delivered.  Not these days.  You go around LA County or better yet any Fire Department and ask these newer breed of Fire/Medic why the are a Paramedic and listen to what they tell you.  As in previous posts, if EMS/the occasional fire department took as much pride in EMS as they did in fighting fire then, as I have stated before, I would not be writing this.  But again, you obviously believe in quantity over quality.  Am I upset that fire departments do EMS? No.  Am I upset that the majority of fire departments provide second rate EMS........Yes.   Again the numbers don't lie.  75% to 95% of a fire departments calls are for EMS.  Fact or fiction? Go a head you can say yes...... Now for another bit of reality.  What do fire departments train 75% to 95% for...........again go a head take your time...........if you said fire fighting, you would be correct.  If you answered EMS you would be...........WRONG.   Now what does a third service or private 911 Paramedic or EMT train for 100% of the time..........this is a tough one...............tick, tock, tick, tock,.............bzzzzzzzzzz. Answer is EMS.    And if you had read a previous post of mine, I do not think Harvey Hall, AMR, or any other company is the best answer to provide EMS.  They have political agendas just like the EMS/occasional fire department.  But I guess because all the kids are doing it, I might as well to is a better solution.  </p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199223 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199223 <p> So just because LA County is doing it means everyone should do it?  Can't you think for yourself?  EMS is not cut and paste.  And explain how my view of EMS is antiquated.  Third service EMS is actually progressive, and something that many municipalities do not consider, because of the "antiquated" cut and paste, or better said that everyone is doing it attitude.  You obviously have not read my previous posts so you are making a redundant argument. One that was already addressed.  </p> <p>The other issue is the motivations behind LA Counties initial Paramedic Squads was one of excitement, of something new something progressive.  Those Fire/Medics motivations were one of doing more for their patients, and took a risk on a new program that might not have taken.  LA County did not have to mandate individuals to go to Medic school, they did not need to lure them with pay bonuses.  Those individuals were true Paramedics through and through.  They cared about the QUALITY of the pt. care they delivered.  Not these days.  You go around LA County or better yet any Fire Department and ask these newer breed of Fire/Medic why the are a Paramedic and listen to what they tell you.  As in previous posts, if EMS/the occasional fire department took as much pride in EMS as they did in fighting fire then, as I have stated before, I would not be writing this.  But again, you obviously believe in quantity over quality.  Am I upset that fire departments do EMS? No.  Am I upset that the majority of fire departments provide second rate EMS........Yes.   Again the numbers don't lie.  75% to 95% of a fire departments calls are for EMS.  Fact or fiction? Go a head you can say yes...... Now for another bit of reality.  What do fire departments train 75% to 95% for...........again go a head take your time...........if you said fire fighting, you would be correct.  If you answered EMS you would be...........WRONG.   Now what does a third service or private 911 Paramedic or EMT train for 100% of the time..........this is a tough one...............tick, tock, tick, tock,.............bzzzzzzzzzz. Answer is EMS.    And if you had read a previous post of mine, I do not think Harvey Hall, AMR, or any other company is the best answer to provide EMS.  They have political agendas just like the EMS/occasional fire department.  But I guess because all the kids are doing it, I might as well to is a better solution.  </p> <p>ventura422--your &quot;facts&quot; don't make sense to me. Many people can do something you obviously can't do--multi task.&nbsp;&nbsp; Being a medic is not like being a brain surgeon and neither is firefighting.&nbsp; There is should be enough room in your brain to do both jobs and still have the ability to do the jobs well.&nbsp; If 75% of the calls really are for ems then it makes even more sense to allow them to become paramedics.&nbsp; And I will bet if you ask the Kern County firefighters if they wanted to become paramedics with no extra pay, the majority of them would.&nbsp;&nbsp; And I am sure they would increase the number of hours spent on keeping and improving their skills if they became paramedics. And If the name was changed to Kern County Paramedic/Fire Department would that make you feel better?&nbsp; BZZZZZZ...maybe it's time for your nap!</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199510 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199510 <p>ventura422--your &quot;facts&quot; don't make sense to me. Many people can do something you obviously can't do--multi task.&nbsp;&nbsp; Being a medic is not like being a brain surgeon and neither is firefighting.&nbsp; There is should be enough room in your brain to do both jobs and still have the ability to do the jobs well.&nbsp; If 75% of the calls really are for ems then it makes even more sense to allow them to become paramedics.&nbsp; And I will bet if you ask the Kern County firefighters if they wanted to become paramedics with no extra pay, the majority of them would.&nbsp;&nbsp; And I am sure they would increase the number of hours spent on keeping and improving their skills if they became paramedics. And If the name was changed to Kern County Paramedic/Fire Department would that make you feel better?&nbsp; BZZZZZZ...maybe it's time for your nap!</p> <p>&nbsp;Go a head and ask them to not take the pay bonus and see how far that goes. &nbsp;I see there is no pulling the wool over your eyes. &nbsp;Brain surgeon not like Paramedic or Fire Fighter, or better said Mongo think fire burn, needle ouch, brain hurt. &nbsp;That was too much information for you so I will slow it down a bit. &nbsp;If you think sticking someone with needles, giving them electrical therapy, pushing cardiotoxic drugs, placing tubes in peoples airways, placing a needle in childs bone, so on and so on, don't require 100% of your attention, then you get what you deserve. &nbsp;AGAIN in a much slower pace this time 75% to 95% of a EMS/fire departments call volume is what.................................the dots are to give you time to think about it. &nbsp;Three Letters...................come on, you can do it..........ok EMS. Now for the bonus round if 75% to 95% of a EMS/fire departments calls are EMS what is the primary thing that you think they should train for..........................again the dots are for the benefit of thought provocation..........E....M....S. &nbsp;I did it slow for effect. &nbsp;Now back to reality......and take a wild guess at which of the two professions they train for the most.......................should I say it about the dots...............F..i..r..e.......F..i..g..h..t..i..n..g. &nbsp;So going back to your previous post, sure they run a lot of calls as Paramedics, as I have stated in a few previous posts, 75%-95%, but the public is not the place to make errors that would not happen if you paid the proper respect to training for EMS calls. &nbsp;Sure it's not brain surgery, but you probably wont make it to the brain surgeon if you are mistreated by a ill prepared Paramedic. &nbsp;But hey, they can stabilize the pt. before ALS ambulance arrival, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199627 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199627 <p>&nbsp;Go a head and ask them to not take the pay bonus and see how far that goes. &nbsp;I see there is no pulling the wool over your eyes. &nbsp;Brain surgeon not like Paramedic or Fire Fighter, or better said Mongo think fire burn, needle ouch, brain hurt. &nbsp;That was too much information for you so I will slow it down a bit. &nbsp;If you think sticking someone with needles, giving them electrical therapy, pushing cardiotoxic drugs, placing tubes in peoples airways, placing a needle in childs bone, so on and so on, don't require 100% of your attention, then you get what you deserve. &nbsp;AGAIN in a much slower pace this time 75% to 95% of a EMS/fire departments call volume is what.................................the dots are to give you time to think about it. &nbsp;Three Letters...................come on, you can do it..........ok EMS. Now for the bonus round if 75% to 95% of a EMS/fire departments calls are EMS what is the primary thing that you think they should train for..........................again the dots are for the benefit of thought provocation..........E....M....S. &nbsp;I did it slow for effect. &nbsp;Now back to reality......and take a wild guess at which of the two professions they train for the most.......................should I say it about the dots...............F..i..r..e.......F..i..g..h..t..i..n..g. &nbsp;So going back to your previous post, sure they run a lot of calls as Paramedics, as I have stated in a few previous posts, 75%-95%, but the public is not the place to make errors that would not happen if you paid the proper respect to training for EMS calls. &nbsp;Sure it's not brain surgery, but you probably wont make it to the brain surgeon if you are mistreated by a ill prepared Paramedic. &nbsp;But hey, they can stabilize the pt. before ALS ambulance arrival, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.</p> <p>Ventura422&nbsp; I still don't understand?? Why does being a firefighter make you a dumb paramedic?&nbsp; The state would pull their licences if they made that many mistakes. I can understand being a paramedic needs 100% of your attention but why can't the fire dept. medics do that?&nbsp; I find it hard to believe they hire people who aren't that smart.&nbsp; I thought is was hard to get hired by a fire dept. </p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199631 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199631 <p>Ventura422&nbsp; I still don't understand?? Why does being a firefighter make you a dumb paramedic?&nbsp; The state would pull their licences if they made that many mistakes. I can understand being a paramedic needs 100% of your attention but why can't the fire dept. medics do that?&nbsp; I find it hard to believe they hire people who aren't that smart.&nbsp; I thought is was hard to get hired by a fire dept. </p> <p>&nbsp;Im not saying they are not smart. &nbsp;Fire Fighting takes intelligence, and the job of a Fire Fighter can be and is extremely difficult. &nbsp;Any job has it's share of boneheads, including third service Paramedics, private Paramedics, Starbucks, GM, so on and so forth. &nbsp;And it is not, as I have stated before, that they can not be great Paramedics, I am not against a EMS/fire department having Paramedics, but the reality is that the lack of attention paid to the PROFESSION of EMS creates and harbors poor performance. &nbsp;It really is not the individual Fire/Medics fault, it is the departments fault for not giving EMS the attention it deserves. &nbsp;Yes they have the same &nbsp;license such as a single function or private Paramedic. &nbsp;The difference is they do not put the emphasis &nbsp;on training for their primary responsibility, which is EMS. &nbsp;They train primarily to fight fires. &nbsp;Yes they do have to go to Continuing Education that is mandated by the state, all of us have to do this or we wouldn't be Paramedics. &nbsp;That is something the fire department has no say in. &nbsp;But when it comes to training beyond maintaining their license that is it. &nbsp;Just the minimum. &nbsp;Ladders, hoses, extrication, hazardous materials, building construction, fire prevention, sprinkler systems, high rise fire fighting, wild land fire fighting, search and rescue, so on and so forth is what they spend most of their time on. &nbsp;So EMS becomes as I have said before a watered down, footnote. &nbsp;Someone that only does one thing, and that one thing is EMS is the answer to quality care. &nbsp;I have nothing against any department that pays EMS the attention that it demands, but the truth is it doesn't happen. &nbsp;The trucks, engines, shiny badges, the heroic image of a fire fighter pulling someone from a burning home, are all fine, but that doesn't make them qualified to handle EMS as their primary responsibility.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199648 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_199648 <p>&nbsp;Im not saying they are not smart. &nbsp;Fire Fighting takes intelligence, and the job of a Fire Fighter can be and is extremely difficult. &nbsp;Any job has it's share of boneheads, including third service Paramedics, private Paramedics, Starbucks, GM, so on and so forth. &nbsp;And it is not, as I have stated before, that they can not be great Paramedics, I am not against a EMS/fire department having Paramedics, but the reality is that the lack of attention paid to the PROFESSION of EMS creates and harbors poor performance. &nbsp;It really is not the individual Fire/Medics fault, it is the departments fault for not giving EMS the attention it deserves. &nbsp;Yes they have the same &nbsp;license such as a single function or private Paramedic. &nbsp;The difference is they do not put the emphasis &nbsp;on training for their primary responsibility, which is EMS. &nbsp;They train primarily to fight fires. &nbsp;Yes they do have to go to Continuing Education that is mandated by the state, all of us have to do this or we wouldn't be Paramedics. &nbsp;That is something the fire department has no say in. &nbsp;But when it comes to training beyond maintaining their license that is it. &nbsp;Just the minimum. &nbsp;Ladders, hoses, extrication, hazardous materials, building construction, fire prevention, sprinkler systems, high rise fire fighting, wild land fire fighting, search and rescue, so on and so forth is what they spend most of their time on. &nbsp;So EMS becomes as I have said before a watered down, footnote. &nbsp;Someone that only does one thing, and that one thing is EMS is the answer to quality care. &nbsp;I have nothing against any department that pays EMS the attention that it demands, but the truth is it doesn't happen. &nbsp;The trucks, engines, shiny badges, the heroic image of a fire fighter pulling someone from a burning home, are all fine, but that doesn't make them qualified to handle EMS as their primary responsibility.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ventura</st1:place></st1:city>, what are you even doing blogging on the Tehachapi News site? And what makes your 16 years of experience better than the 50+ combined years (very conservatively speaking) of private ambulance paramedic experience that&nbsp;KCFD medics have?<u2:p></u2:p><o:p></o:p></p> <p>I don't think you can see our situation very well, maybe you should have a window installed in your stomach or move your head to a better location.<u2:p></u2:p><o:p></o:p></p> <p>Ps. everybody knows that you work for a local ambulance, your not fooling anybody.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200122 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200122 <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ventura</st1:place></st1:city>, what are you even doing blogging on the Tehachapi News site? And what makes your 16 years of experience better than the 50+ combined years (very conservatively speaking) of private ambulance paramedic experience that&nbsp;KCFD medics have?<u2:p></u2:p><o:p></o:p></p> <p>I don't think you can see our situation very well, maybe you should have a window installed in your stomach or move your head to a better location.<u2:p></u2:p><o:p></o:p></p> <p>Ps. everybody knows that you work for a local ambulance, your not fooling anybody.</p> <p>Great, so we get a fire-fighter/paramedic that hasnt run an ALS call since October that shows up on a full blown CHF patient but since he hasnt put a stethascope to a patients chest in 4-5 months he thinks its COPD and gives the patient epi and albuterol. Now the patient gets to wait for 30 minutes while fire-medic floods his lungs with pulmonary edema until ambulance-paramedic, who actually runs calls, shows up to fix it....only its too late.</p> <p>Better yet, how about the patient in respiratory failure who requires intubation. Fire-Medic shows up and hasn't pulled out his laryngoscope since his OR clinicals and intubates the esophagus. 30 minutes is a long time to go without a patent airway. Right?</p> <p>And if L.A. County is so great, why is their intubation success stats at almost half of what kern county is? Why is it that L.A. removed pediatric intubation from their scope of practice....oh yea because their success rate was far from exceptional. I wonder what the difference is between Kern County and L.A. County......oh yea FIRE MEDICS.</p> <p>And just for the record, I'm not saying ALL fire medics are bad medics. I'm simply implying that lack of call volume leads to deterioration of skills. Just like not working out leads to weak muscles. You can't be a marksman if you only shoot one round a month.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200279 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200279 <p>Great, so we get a fire-fighter/paramedic that hasnt run an ALS call since October that shows up on a full blown CHF patient but since he hasnt put a stethascope to a patients chest in 4-5 months he thinks its COPD and gives the patient epi and albuterol. Now the patient gets to wait for 30 minutes while fire-medic floods his lungs with pulmonary edema until ambulance-paramedic, who actually runs calls, shows up to fix it....only its too late.</p> <p>Better yet, how about the patient in respiratory failure who requires intubation. Fire-Medic shows up and hasn't pulled out his laryngoscope since his OR clinicals and intubates the esophagus. 30 minutes is a long time to go without a patent airway. Right?</p> <p>And if L.A. County is so great, why is their intubation success stats at almost half of what kern county is? Why is it that L.A. removed pediatric intubation from their scope of practice....oh yea because their success rate was far from exceptional. I wonder what the difference is between Kern County and L.A. County......oh yea FIRE MEDICS.</p> <p>And just for the record, I'm not saying ALL fire medics are bad medics. I'm simply implying that lack of call volume leads to deterioration of skills. Just like not working out leads to weak muscles. You can't be a marksman if you only shoot one round a month.</p> <p><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Arial">&nbsp;<strong><span style="color: #005826; font-family: Arial">Drummin4fun</span></strong>&nbsp;says; &quot;until ambulance-paramedic, who actually runs calls, shows up to fix it....only its too late.&quot; ----&nbsp;Ok, so how often do you see an ambulance show up with out a fire truck? </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="text-indent: 0.5in"><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Arial">I don't believe that </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">LA</span></st1:city><st1:state w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">CO</span></st1:state></st1:place><span style="font-size: medium">&rsquo;s intubation success is half that of Kern, I&rsquo;d like to see that report. And in LA CO people aren&rsquo;t waiting 45 min for a private ambulance&nbsp;paramedic to show up, there is most likely one showing up in a timely manner, on the fire engine, and that&nbsp;fire/paramedic probably runs&hellip;&hellip;&hellip;...75%...............to&hellip;&hellip;&hellip;&hellip;.95%&nbsp;EMS calls just like you have been saying. The dots are there&nbsp;to let your own words sink in </span><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">ventura</span></st1:city></st1:place><span style="font-size: medium">.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="text-indent: 0.5in"><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Arial">One more thing, I wonder how much money the fire department will stand to make on an average ALS call where they do stabilize the patient&hellip;&hellip;.. $0.00 and I wonder where ambulance companies get there money? ......... Oh yeah, for transporting patients. So if the Fire Department isn&rsquo;t getting anything out of this, except better service for the citizens living in rural areas, why would a few people be against it? Those few people work for our local ambulance monopoly and they&rsquo;re afraid to see the little bit of power they have slip away. </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="text-indent: 0.5in"><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>But fear not rural citizens of </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial"><st1:placename w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">Kern</span></st1:placename><st1:placetype w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">County</span></st1:placetype><span style="font-size: medium">, most all of </span><st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">Harvey</span></st1:place></st1:city><span style="font-size: medium">&rsquo;s good medics took the last test for KCFD (at the risk of loosing there current job). </span><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200326 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200326 <p><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Arial">&nbsp;<strong><span style="color: #005826; font-family: Arial">Drummin4fun</span></strong>&nbsp;says; &quot;until ambulance-paramedic, who actually runs calls, shows up to fix it....only its too late.&quot; ----&nbsp;Ok, so how often do you see an ambulance show up with out a fire truck? </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="text-indent: 0.5in"><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Arial">I don't believe that </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">LA</span></st1:city><st1:state w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">CO</span></st1:state></st1:place><span style="font-size: medium">&rsquo;s intubation success is half that of Kern, I&rsquo;d like to see that report. And in LA CO people aren&rsquo;t waiting 45 min for a private ambulance&nbsp;paramedic to show up, there is most likely one showing up in a timely manner, on the fire engine, and that&nbsp;fire/paramedic probably runs&hellip;&hellip;&hellip;...75%...............to&hellip;&hellip;&hellip;&hellip;.95%&nbsp;EMS calls just like you have been saying. The dots are there&nbsp;to let your own words sink in </span><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">ventura</span></st1:city></st1:place><span style="font-size: medium">.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="text-indent: 0.5in"><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Arial">One more thing, I wonder how much money the fire department will stand to make on an average ALS call where they do stabilize the patient&hellip;&hellip;.. $0.00 and I wonder where ambulance companies get there money? ......... Oh yeah, for transporting patients. So if the Fire Department isn&rsquo;t getting anything out of this, except better service for the citizens living in rural areas, why would a few people be against it? Those few people work for our local ambulance monopoly and they&rsquo;re afraid to see the little bit of power they have slip away. </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p style="text-indent: 0.5in"><span style="font-size: medium"><span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>But fear not rural citizens of </span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial"><st1:placename w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">Kern</span></st1:placename><st1:placetype w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">County</span></st1:placetype><span style="font-size: medium">, most all of </span><st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><span style="font-size: medium">Harvey</span></st1:place></st1:city><span style="font-size: medium">&rsquo;s good medics took the last test for KCFD (at the risk of loosing there current job). </span><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>L.A. County's intubation rates are a matter of public record....look it up. And yes L.A. County people wait just as long. Engine 77 in Gorman is a BLS station. The paramedic squad comes out of Castaic, and the ambulance comes from even further. Or lets look at the area close to Rosamond. Over by 170th, 190th, etc. Paramedic response can take over 40 minutes. And we aren't just talking about 2 houses, this is a community just the size, if not larger than pine mountain club, glennville, woody, stallion, etc.</p> <p>Now lets back it up to Kern County. How long do you think the people of Sand Canyon wait for a fire engine? The same amount of time as they do an ambulance. Once again, just as many people living around there.</p> <p>I love to hear people argue that the fire department is better to provide care because "they aren't in it for the money". If that was the case then why do so many private ambulance paramedics do the job for pennies on the dollar? Could it be because they actually like being paramedics? Firemen make loads of money. It doesn't matter who is flipping the bill. True, the department as a whole is not a "profit organization", but every person working for it is bringing home a pretty nice paycheck.</p> <p>So if private enterprise is "wrong" because they collect a bill, then next time you have an emergency, make sure you tell the ambulance to take you to KMC, becaue every other hospital around here is a "private, profit making" monster....just like that evil private ambulance. Oh wait I almost forgot, they collect a bill too.</p> <p>And dub, if you ran one medical aid a month out of your station and that was your only call, then that means you ran 100% medical calls. Percents don't mean a thing.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200451 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200451 <p>L.A. County's intubation rates are a matter of public record....look it up. And yes L.A. County people wait just as long. Engine 77 in Gorman is a BLS station. The paramedic squad comes out of Castaic, and the ambulance comes from even further. Or lets look at the area close to Rosamond. Over by 170th, 190th, etc. Paramedic response can take over 40 minutes. And we aren't just talking about 2 houses, this is a community just the size, if not larger than pine mountain club, glennville, woody, stallion, etc.</p> <p>Now lets back it up to Kern County. How long do you think the people of Sand Canyon wait for a fire engine? The same amount of time as they do an ambulance. Once again, just as many people living around there.</p> <p>I love to hear people argue that the fire department is better to provide care because "they aren't in it for the money". If that was the case then why do so many private ambulance paramedics do the job for pennies on the dollar? Could it be because they actually like being paramedics? Firemen make loads of money. It doesn't matter who is flipping the bill. True, the department as a whole is not a "profit organization", but every person working for it is bringing home a pretty nice paycheck.</p> <p>So if private enterprise is "wrong" because they collect a bill, then next time you have an emergency, make sure you tell the ambulance to take you to KMC, becaue every other hospital around here is a "private, profit making" monster....just like that evil private ambulance. Oh wait I almost forgot, they collect a bill too.</p> <p>And dub, if you ran one medical aid a month out of your station and that was your only call, then that means you ran 100% medical calls. Percents don't mean a thing.</p> <p>Drum and Ventura, your so biased against&nbsp; fire dept medics you have many issues.&nbsp; My first guess is you both work for Halls.&nbsp; Second, you could not get hired by a fire dept.&nbsp; Maybe you have been treated poorly by the fire dept on a call, but that goes both ways. &nbsp; If transport was so important vs. stablization, maybe we should have the fire dept. transport also.&nbsp; The best of both worlds..&nbsp;&nbsp; How about the the private medics posting?&nbsp; That means an ambulance parked in a parking lot at 3 am waiting for a call?&nbsp; Talk about unsafe working conditions. Tired and drowsy?&nbsp; If the companies werent in it for the $$, how come so many ambulances are tied up doing interfacility transports???&nbsp; Hmmmm$$$$$,&nbsp; thats where the insurance $$$ is..&nbsp; DUH.&nbsp; Yes firemen are well paid, but they are also held to a high standard for work performance.&nbsp; Too many paramedics??&nbsp; How come Halls has such a hard time staffing ambulances?&nbsp; Even running BLS ambulances first in.&nbsp; If being a private medic is so great, why are so many trying to get hired by the fire depts???&nbsp; Why don't they privates pay better, because it cuts in to thier bottom line....&nbsp;</p> <p>How can you argue that not getting paramedics on scene ASAP can't make a difference??&nbsp; If you have been medics so long, how long do you wait for a bed for a patient?&nbsp; I bet hours.&nbsp; That means you are out of service that much longer. Do&nbsp; private medics have the training and protective equipment to enter a hazardous enviorment or atmosphere?&nbsp; How about rappel over the side of a cliff to a patient.&nbsp; Privates can't even enter a confined space to treat a patient let alone an overturned car or truck.&nbsp; Maybe firefighters are fairly paid, but there is a reason.&nbsp; The same as that firefighters should be paramedics.&nbsp; I am not sure where you get your information, but I have talked to firemedics from the following depts to get mine-LA City and County, Ventura, Orange County, CDF, San Diego City, and Santa Barbara County.</p> <p>There is plenty of work for fire and private medics.&nbsp; If you can't accept that, maybe it's time you find a new line of work..</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200813 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200813 <p>Drum and Ventura, your so biased against&nbsp; fire dept medics you have many issues.&nbsp; My first guess is you both work for Halls.&nbsp; Second, you could not get hired by a fire dept.&nbsp; Maybe you have been treated poorly by the fire dept on a call, but that goes both ways. &nbsp; If transport was so important vs. stablization, maybe we should have the fire dept. transport also.&nbsp; The best of both worlds..&nbsp;&nbsp; How about the the private medics posting?&nbsp; That means an ambulance parked in a parking lot at 3 am waiting for a call?&nbsp; Talk about unsafe working conditions. Tired and drowsy?&nbsp; If the companies werent in it for the $$, how come so many ambulances are tied up doing interfacility transports???&nbsp; Hmmmm$$$$$,&nbsp; thats where the insurance $$$ is..&nbsp; DUH.&nbsp; Yes firemen are well paid, but they are also held to a high standard for work performance.&nbsp; Too many paramedics??&nbsp; How come Halls has such a hard time staffing ambulances?&nbsp; Even running BLS ambulances first in.&nbsp; If being a private medic is so great, why are so many trying to get hired by the fire depts???&nbsp; Why don't they privates pay better, because it cuts in to thier bottom line....&nbsp;</p> <p>How can you argue that not getting paramedics on scene ASAP can't make a difference??&nbsp; If you have been medics so long, how long do you wait for a bed for a patient?&nbsp; I bet hours.&nbsp; That means you are out of service that much longer. Do&nbsp; private medics have the training and protective equipment to enter a hazardous enviorment or atmosphere?&nbsp; How about rappel over the side of a cliff to a patient.&nbsp; Privates can't even enter a confined space to treat a patient let alone an overturned car or truck.&nbsp; Maybe firefighters are fairly paid, but there is a reason.&nbsp; The same as that firefighters should be paramedics.&nbsp; I am not sure where you get your information, but I have talked to firemedics from the following depts to get mine-LA City and County, Ventura, Orange County, CDF, San Diego City, and Santa Barbara County.</p> <p>There is plenty of work for fire and private medics.&nbsp; If you can't accept that, maybe it's time you find a new line of work..</p> <p>Your right, private pay sucks. Thats why medics leave to go to fire departments. TO MAKE MONEY. You are also correct on IFT's. They are the bread and butter of most private ambulance services just as hospitals use special procedures like surgeries, echocardiograms, MRI's, CT's, Nuclear Med Studies, etc to stay afloat. ER's are a money loser. So why aren't you guys out picketing Tehachapi hospital because they are &quot;money hungry&quot; and have a monopoly on the East Kern? With reimbursment rates being in the mid to low 40 percentile, you wonder how anyone in the medical business can stay afloat. </p> <p>Now lets talk about hazmat and technical rescues. If you can find anyone that has the ability to start an IV or intubate while hanging off a cliff, give them a pat on the back for me. What is the first thing they teach you about treating patients in hazardous areas? YOU DONT. You get them out of the that area as as possible and then treat them. Wasting time starting an IV in a confined space does nothing. Now they are stuck in a tight spot and have a needle in their arm. That's NOT how you save a life.</p> <p>So the fire department is held to a higher standard of work performance? Then how come the county isn't keeping track of their response times? How come the firemen don't have to complete patient care reports and submit them to the county? Do they even have a Q.A. system in place to assure that they provide appropriate treatment? Why is it that an engine can leave their area to get groceries, play poker with the next in engine or do drills while leaving their area unconcovered? True sometimes you hear ambulances respond from a distance due to multiple calls, but if you listen to a fire scanner you will hear &quot;engine 12 medical aid, engine 11's area&quot; or engine 190 medical aid, 14's area&quot; just as much. Why doesn't engine 14 post at hwy 14 and backus when 15 gets a call? Private ambulances adjust their coverage.</p> <p>With all fairness. I know private ambulance has its flaws. Staffing is difficult nationwide, not just in Kern County. Getting tied up waiting for beds in ER's causes less units to be on the streets, and under-paid medics can tend to become disgruntled. Its no secret. But the fire department isn't perfect either. Why is it that an engine wont divert from a structure to respond to a medical aid? Why is it that there is no fire station in sand canyon. Could it be becaues of a lack of tax base? So does that mean THEY are putting the dollar sign in front of human lives?</p> <p>All of this talk about lack of call volume and deterioration of skills applies to private ambulance as well. If a private ambulance medic sits in a remote area and runs 2 calls a month, he (or she) isn't going to be very good at what they do. Not because of training, not because they are stupid, but becaue they simply don't get out and do it enough.</p> <p>As far as L.A. County goes, look up their protocols. Explain why they can't intubate pediatrics, use an IO needle in pediatric emergencies, utilize gastric lavage to pump the stomach of a person who has overdosed, admister sedatives prior to intubation, use a cardiac pacemaker for people in severe bradycardia, perform a needle cricothyrotomy for a person who is choking, the list goes on. In addition, they have to make base contact before doing pretty much anything. It wasn't always that way over there. Now after you have read that, look up Kern County Protocols. </p> <p>LA County - <font size="-1"><span class="a">dhs.lacounty.gov/ems</span></font><br /> Kern County - co.kern.ca.us/ems</p> <p>As far as performance standards for private ambulances around kern county goes. The county has set very strict guidelines for response times, protocol compliance, complaint resolution, etc. Hall as well as Liberty, Kern, Care and Delano all follow these and have been compliant since they were implimented last year. The County of Kern set the maximum response times for bear valley, pmv, stallion, etc to what they feel is reasonable. This is not the work of Harvey Hall. If you have serious health issues, or ambulance response times is such a great deal of importance to you, then I suggest you move closer to civilization. By the way, how long does it take to drive to the nearest pharmacy in these areas? Why not protest Walgreens for denying the citizens of rural areas timely and convenient perscription service?</p> <p>If the people of these areas want to increase their property tax to pay for firefighter paramedics, then I have absolutely no problem with that. I just don't feel the rest of county should be held responsible when these people chose to live away from society.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200846 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200846 <p>Your right, private pay sucks. Thats why medics leave to go to fire departments. TO MAKE MONEY. You are also correct on IFT's. They are the bread and butter of most private ambulance services just as hospitals use special procedures like surgeries, echocardiograms, MRI's, CT's, Nuclear Med Studies, etc to stay afloat. ER's are a money loser. So why aren't you guys out picketing Tehachapi hospital because they are &quot;money hungry&quot; and have a monopoly on the East Kern? With reimbursment rates being in the mid to low 40 percentile, you wonder how anyone in the medical business can stay afloat. </p> <p>Now lets talk about hazmat and technical rescues. If you can find anyone that has the ability to start an IV or intubate while hanging off a cliff, give them a pat on the back for me. What is the first thing they teach you about treating patients in hazardous areas? YOU DONT. You get them out of the that area as as possible and then treat them. Wasting time starting an IV in a confined space does nothing. Now they are stuck in a tight spot and have a needle in their arm. That's NOT how you save a life.</p> <p>So the fire department is held to a higher standard of work performance? Then how come the county isn't keeping track of their response times? How come the firemen don't have to complete patient care reports and submit them to the county? Do they even have a Q.A. system in place to assure that they provide appropriate treatment? Why is it that an engine can leave their area to get groceries, play poker with the next in engine or do drills while leaving their area unconcovered? True sometimes you hear ambulances respond from a distance due to multiple calls, but if you listen to a fire scanner you will hear &quot;engine 12 medical aid, engine 11's area&quot; or engine 190 medical aid, 14's area&quot; just as much. Why doesn't engine 14 post at hwy 14 and backus when 15 gets a call? Private ambulances adjust their coverage.</p> <p>With all fairness. I know private ambulance has its flaws. Staffing is difficult nationwide, not just in Kern County. Getting tied up waiting for beds in ER's causes less units to be on the streets, and under-paid medics can tend to become disgruntled. Its no secret. But the fire department isn't perfect either. Why is it that an engine wont divert from a structure to respond to a medical aid? Why is it that there is no fire station in sand canyon. Could it be becaues of a lack of tax base? So does that mean THEY are putting the dollar sign in front of human lives?</p> <p>All of this talk about lack of call volume and deterioration of skills applies to private ambulance as well. If a private ambulance medic sits in a remote area and runs 2 calls a month, he (or she) isn't going to be very good at what they do. Not because of training, not because they are stupid, but becaue they simply don't get out and do it enough.</p> <p>As far as L.A. County goes, look up their protocols. Explain why they can't intubate pediatrics, use an IO needle in pediatric emergencies, utilize gastric lavage to pump the stomach of a person who has overdosed, admister sedatives prior to intubation, use a cardiac pacemaker for people in severe bradycardia, perform a needle cricothyrotomy for a person who is choking, the list goes on. In addition, they have to make base contact before doing pretty much anything. It wasn't always that way over there. Now after you have read that, look up Kern County Protocols. </p> <p>LA County - <font size="-1"><span class="a">dhs.lacounty.gov/ems</span></font><br /> Kern County - co.kern.ca.us/ems</p> <p>As far as performance standards for private ambulances around kern county goes. The county has set very strict guidelines for response times, protocol compliance, complaint resolution, etc. Hall as well as Liberty, Kern, Care and Delano all follow these and have been compliant since they were implimented last year. The County of Kern set the maximum response times for bear valley, pmv, stallion, etc to what they feel is reasonable. This is not the work of Harvey Hall. If you have serious health issues, or ambulance response times is such a great deal of importance to you, then I suggest you move closer to civilization. By the way, how long does it take to drive to the nearest pharmacy in these areas? Why not protest Walgreens for denying the citizens of rural areas timely and convenient perscription service?</p> <p>If the people of these areas want to increase their property tax to pay for firefighter paramedics, then I have absolutely no problem with that. I just don't feel the rest of county should be held responsible when these people chose to live away from society.</p> <p>Ok Halls empyee .........&nbsp; First off whats with the Kern vs LA protocols?&nbsp; I think the protocols in Kern are much better whether they are being used by fire medics (Ca City 190) or privates.&nbsp;&nbsp; It benefits all.&nbsp; I live in a populated area of the county.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I believe firefighters aren't picketing the hospital because it is not an issue.&nbsp; Firefighters aren't trying to be doctors or nurses.&nbsp; Firefighters don't want to take over the emergency rooms.&nbsp; Just the same as firefighters don't want to take over EMS.&nbsp; (Although they should).&nbsp; Firefighters just want to put another vital link in the EMS system.&nbsp; If you were at all familiar with the fire dept's proposal you would be aware of that.&nbsp; Fire medics could arrive first and start treatment and than &quot;hand-off&quot; to the private ambulance company for further treatment and transport and go available. &nbsp; I am assuming your a medic&nbsp; and you would lose your ability to be the boss and run the call........ &nbsp; If 75% of all fire dept calls were medical in nature, I would suppose the skill level of fire medics would stay focused and dialed.&nbsp; Wouldn't that be the same for private medics also???&nbsp; How come the highly skilled private medics requesting a firefighter to ride in the ambulance&nbsp; to assist whenever the patient may take a turn for the worse?&nbsp; Seems like you like the firemen when you need CPR, BVM, or a line stripped?&nbsp; How about when your partner can't pull thier own weight and lift thier own gurney?&nbsp;&nbsp; Moving around for training by the way,,,&nbsp; is that similiar to the Rosamond ambulance doing a long distance transfer to.........Long Beach and being gone for several areas and forcing another ambulance to cover a larger area???&nbsp; Oh yeah, after being on the road for several hours all night and than coming back to running calls........</p> <p>Firefighters do do reports, on EVERY call they go on. Fire and medical.&nbsp; I applaud your skills as a KERN County medic.&nbsp; Why can't the fire medics do the same for the patients also????&nbsp;&nbsp; The fire depts do have response times that are recomended by NFPA.&nbsp; That is why a FIRE station was opened in Stallion Springs. others are coming...&nbsp; I am not sure where you get your info, but fire companies don't leave thier areas for poker games. Yes fire companies do training, I am fairly certain it is for a minimal amount of time.&nbsp; Conversly, why did Halls pull out of Pine MTN Club?&nbsp; By there own accounts &quot;There was not enough MONEY in it for us.&quot;&nbsp; If the ambulance companies went bankrupt, went on strike, or became unfunctionable... No more Medics.&nbsp; The fire dept would still be there..</p> <p>Your cliff rescue scenario sounds like you have been watching a bit to much Emergency or Rescue 911.&nbsp; Lets take the simple car rollover.&nbsp; Do private medics have the proper safety gear to climb in a wrecked auto and simply give oxygen?&nbsp; Remember ABC's.&nbsp; Same with that confined space victom or haz-mat incident?&nbsp; We can play what-if all night.&nbsp;&nbsp; I agree with you about remote locations.&nbsp; However, it is 2008.&nbsp; Bear Valley, Stallion, and PMC have thousands of residents.&nbsp; Guess what, they all have fire stations.&nbsp; The ambulance companies have been hoarding thier private little monopolies for far to long.&nbsp; Now they don't want to share.</p> <p>Either you couldn't pass the test or have been brainwashed by Harvey's stooges.&nbsp; The difference between you and the fire dept is that the fire dept doesn't want to take your job.&nbsp; The fire dept wants to work together with the private ambulances to do the greatest good for the patient/public.&nbsp; It's not about the bottom line.&nbsp; But they don't tell you that at the company meetings..</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200868 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200868 <p>Ok Halls empyee .........&nbsp; First off whats with the Kern vs LA protocols?&nbsp; I think the protocols in Kern are much better whether they are being used by fire medics (Ca City 190) or privates.&nbsp;&nbsp; It benefits all.&nbsp; I live in a populated area of the county.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I believe firefighters aren't picketing the hospital because it is not an issue.&nbsp; Firefighters aren't trying to be doctors or nurses.&nbsp; Firefighters don't want to take over the emergency rooms.&nbsp; Just the same as firefighters don't want to take over EMS.&nbsp; (Although they should).&nbsp; Firefighters just want to put another vital link in the EMS system.&nbsp; If you were at all familiar with the fire dept's proposal you would be aware of that.&nbsp; Fire medics could arrive first and start treatment and than &quot;hand-off&quot; to the private ambulance company for further treatment and transport and go available. &nbsp; I am assuming your a medic&nbsp; and you would lose your ability to be the boss and run the call........ &nbsp; If 75% of all fire dept calls were medical in nature, I would suppose the skill level of fire medics would stay focused and dialed.&nbsp; Wouldn't that be the same for private medics also???&nbsp; How come the highly skilled private medics requesting a firefighter to ride in the ambulance&nbsp; to assist whenever the patient may take a turn for the worse?&nbsp; Seems like you like the firemen when you need CPR, BVM, or a line stripped?&nbsp; How about when your partner can't pull thier own weight and lift thier own gurney?&nbsp;&nbsp; Moving around for training by the way,,,&nbsp; is that similiar to the Rosamond ambulance doing a long distance transfer to.........Long Beach and being gone for several areas and forcing another ambulance to cover a larger area???&nbsp; Oh yeah, after being on the road for several hours all night and than coming back to running calls........</p> <p>Firefighters do do reports, on EVERY call they go on. Fire and medical.&nbsp; I applaud your skills as a KERN County medic.&nbsp; Why can't the fire medics do the same for the patients also????&nbsp;&nbsp; The fire depts do have response times that are recomended by NFPA.&nbsp; That is why a FIRE station was opened in Stallion Springs. others are coming...&nbsp; I am not sure where you get your info, but fire companies don't leave thier areas for poker games. Yes fire companies do training, I am fairly certain it is for a minimal amount of time.&nbsp; Conversly, why did Halls pull out of Pine MTN Club?&nbsp; By there own accounts &quot;There was not enough MONEY in it for us.&quot;&nbsp; If the ambulance companies went bankrupt, went on strike, or became unfunctionable... No more Medics.&nbsp; The fire dept would still be there..</p> <p>Your cliff rescue scenario sounds like you have been watching a bit to much Emergency or Rescue 911.&nbsp; Lets take the simple car rollover.&nbsp; Do private medics have the proper safety gear to climb in a wrecked auto and simply give oxygen?&nbsp; Remember ABC's.&nbsp; Same with that confined space victom or haz-mat incident?&nbsp; We can play what-if all night.&nbsp;&nbsp; I agree with you about remote locations.&nbsp; However, it is 2008.&nbsp; Bear Valley, Stallion, and PMC have thousands of residents.&nbsp; Guess what, they all have fire stations.&nbsp; The ambulance companies have been hoarding thier private little monopolies for far to long.&nbsp; Now they don't want to share.</p> <p>Either you couldn't pass the test or have been brainwashed by Harvey's stooges.&nbsp; The difference between you and the fire dept is that the fire dept doesn't want to take your job.&nbsp; The fire dept wants to work together with the private ambulances to do the greatest good for the patient/public.&nbsp; It's not about the bottom line.&nbsp; But they don't tell you that at the company meetings..</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="color: #333399">&nbsp;Why is it that there is no fire station in sand canyon.Could it be because of a lack of tax base? So does that mean THEY are putting the dollar sign in front of human lives-------------&nbsp;<span style="color: #333399">If you have serious health issues, or ambulance response times is such a great deal of importance to you, then I suggest you move closer to civilization. </span>I just don't feel the rest of county should be held responsible when these people chose to live away from society.<strong>&nbsp; </strong><span style="color: #000000"><strong>Can't have your cake and eat it to dude!&nbsp; So you are going to diss the fire dept for not having stations in all of the rural areas and then in the next breath say that you feel the rest of Kern shouldn't be responsible for the people out in those areas!!?? Oh, wait that's only when an ambulance is involved.&nbsp;So what is it?</strong></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #333399"><span><span>Why is it that an engine wont divert from a structure to respond to a medical aid? </span></span></span><span><span><b>I don't know about you but last I checked the fire dept. were the only people qualified to put out fires and there are other people able to roll on&nbsp;medical aids if need be.................like you!&nbsp; Also since the percentage of medical aids vs. structures&nbsp;they are running are so high the chances of this happening are slim right? Come on now. :)</b></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #333399"><span><span>Why is it that an engine can leave their area to get groceries, play poker with the next in engine or do drills while leaving their area uncovered? </span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #333399"><span style="color: #000000"><strong>Wow you are reaching. I've seen plenty of medics going to the grocery store too. They do have to eat ya know. Also normally only one goes shopping while the other two stay behind.They do not leave their area to play poker ( I know where you pulled that from and you can put it right back), and&nbsp;I believe&nbsp;training takes place for approved amounts of time and is normally split up, but again are you complaining that they don't train enough or that they train at all?? Seriously, you've contradicted yourself several times and keep flipping things so they work&nbsp;to your advantage, but we see through it.</strong></span></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200880 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200880 <p><span style="color: #333399">&nbsp;Why is it that there is no fire station in sand canyon.Could it be because of a lack of tax base? So does that mean THEY are putting the dollar sign in front of human lives-------------&nbsp;<span style="color: #333399">If you have serious health issues, or ambulance response times is such a great deal of importance to you, then I suggest you move closer to civilization. </span>I just don't feel the rest of county should be held responsible when these people chose to live away from society.<strong>&nbsp; </strong><span style="color: #000000"><strong>Can't have your cake and eat it to dude!&nbsp; So you are going to diss the fire dept for not having stations in all of the rural areas and then in the next breath say that you feel the rest of Kern shouldn't be responsible for the people out in those areas!!?? Oh, wait that's only when an ambulance is involved.&nbsp;So what is it?</strong></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #333399"><span><span>Why is it that an engine wont divert from a structure to respond to a medical aid? </span></span></span><span><span><b>I don't know about you but last I checked the fire dept. were the only people qualified to put out fires and there are other people able to roll on&nbsp;medical aids if need be.................like you!&nbsp; Also since the percentage of medical aids vs. structures&nbsp;they are running are so high the chances of this happening are slim right? Come on now. :)</b></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #333399"><span><span>Why is it that an engine can leave their area to get groceries, play poker with the next in engine or do drills while leaving their area uncovered? </span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #333399"><span style="color: #000000"><strong>Wow you are reaching. I've seen plenty of medics going to the grocery store too. They do have to eat ya know. Also normally only one goes shopping while the other two stay behind.They do not leave their area to play poker ( I know where you pulled that from and you can put it right back), and&nbsp;I believe&nbsp;training takes place for approved amounts of time and is normally split up, but again are you complaining that they don't train enough or that they train at all?? Seriously, you've contradicted yourself several times and keep flipping things so they work&nbsp;to your advantage, but we see through it.</strong></span></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Countygirl--Ventura has tripped himself up so many times he going to fall!&nbsp; Hope he doesn't hurt himself, esp. out in a rural area.&nbsp; Then he would know how it feels to wait an hour for pain medicine from an ambulance paramedic!</p> <p>Funny thing though. I'm sure lots of Hall employees are reading this and NOT ONE has backed ventura up on his point of view.&nbsp; Any Hall employees want to jump in here and back up what ventura says?</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200898 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_200898 <p>Countygirl--Ventura has tripped himself up so many times he going to fall!&nbsp; Hope he doesn't hurt himself, esp. out in a rural area.&nbsp; Then he would know how it feels to wait an hour for pain medicine from an ambulance paramedic!</p> <p>Funny thing though. I'm sure lots of Hall employees are reading this and NOT ONE has backed ventura up on his point of view.&nbsp; Any Hall employees want to jump in here and back up what ventura says?</p> <p>Lets start with Pine Mountain Club. Hall left because of A) Lack of call volume and B) poor treatment from the community. How bad did they really want that ambulance there when a store owner refuses to serve a Hall EMT saying "your not welcome here"? People would flip the "bird" to hall employees as they are driving by. I think anyone could image how difficult staffing a station like that would be. </p> <p>As far as technical rescue goes, last time I checked it doesn't take a paramedic to put oxygen on a patient in a car.</p> <p>Countygirl - I was making a point about the fire department complaining that people of rural areas dont have paramedic service. But how can they blame private ambulance when they have plenty of areas without ANY coverage (Sand Canyon, North Edwards, Caliente). Just as many calls go out in those areas, if not more than areas like PMC, Glennville, Woody, etc. I understand why they don't have engines there. It's the same reason private ambulances don't post there. As well as the reason private ambulances don't post in areas like PMC. If they are so set on getting paramedic service to rural areas, then why aren't they rushing to place stations in those remote areas?</p> <p>As far Rosamond goes. Yes generally private companies will adjust coverage when units go on calls (or Long Distance Transfers). But some coverage is better than none. Moving one of the 2 ambulance from Mojave to cover Rosamond seems acceptable to me. Like I said, I don't see engine 14 moving half way in case a second call goes out.</p> <p>Thats nice that the NFPA "recommends" that you respond in a certain time frame. But I'm guessing KCFD's contract isn't at stake if they don't make those times. I guess a close eye would be good for performance. Either meet the times or get bid out by CDF.</p> <p>If the county, thats right, THE COUNTY felt that the private ambulance was not making it to bear valley or stallion in a timely manor, then they would up the response zone to a 15 minute or 8 minute forcing the private ambulance to place a station or risk losing the area.</p> <p>Once again, yes fire might run 75, 80, 90% medical calls. But whats 90% of 3 calls? You can't stay sharp on 2-3 calls a month. And for the record I don't dislike firefighters. I think they do a great job in this county fighting fires and helping on medical-aids. I however, do not feel the need to add paramedics to the rural systems. So yes they are nice to have in a "full arrest" scenario to help with CPR and a BVM. They are great for rescues, being that private ambulances don't carry the equipment to extricate patients that are "pinned in". Thats why we have a teired system in place. </p> <p>And also for the record. I never took the fire test. I don't want to fight fires. It just doesn't interest me.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_201014 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_201014 <p>Lets start with Pine Mountain Club. Hall left because of A) Lack of call volume and B) poor treatment from the community. How bad did they really want that ambulance there when a store owner refuses to serve a Hall EMT saying "your not welcome here"? People would flip the "bird" to hall employees as they are driving by. I think anyone could image how difficult staffing a station like that would be. </p> <p>As far as technical rescue goes, last time I checked it doesn't take a paramedic to put oxygen on a patient in a car.</p> <p>Countygirl - I was making a point about the fire department complaining that people of rural areas dont have paramedic service. But how can they blame private ambulance when they have plenty of areas without ANY coverage (Sand Canyon, North Edwards, Caliente). Just as many calls go out in those areas, if not more than areas like PMC, Glennville, Woody, etc. I understand why they don't have engines there. It's the same reason private ambulances don't post there. As well as the reason private ambulances don't post in areas like PMC. If they are so set on getting paramedic service to rural areas, then why aren't they rushing to place stations in those remote areas?</p> <p>As far Rosamond goes. Yes generally private companies will adjust coverage when units go on calls (or Long Distance Transfers). But some coverage is better than none. Moving one of the 2 ambulance from Mojave to cover Rosamond seems acceptable to me. Like I said, I don't see engine 14 moving half way in case a second call goes out.</p> <p>Thats nice that the NFPA "recommends" that you respond in a certain time frame. But I'm guessing KCFD's contract isn't at stake if they don't make those times. I guess a close eye would be good for performance. Either meet the times or get bid out by CDF.</p> <p>If the county, thats right, THE COUNTY felt that the private ambulance was not making it to bear valley or stallion in a timely manor, then they would up the response zone to a 15 minute or 8 minute forcing the private ambulance to place a station or risk losing the area.</p> <p>Once again, yes fire might run 75, 80, 90% medical calls. But whats 90% of 3 calls? You can't stay sharp on 2-3 calls a month. And for the record I don't dislike firefighters. I think they do a great job in this county fighting fires and helping on medical-aids. I however, do not feel the need to add paramedics to the rural systems. So yes they are nice to have in a "full arrest" scenario to help with CPR and a BVM. They are great for rescues, being that private ambulances don't carry the equipment to extricate patients that are "pinned in". Thats why we have a teired system in place. </p> <p>And also for the record. I never took the fire test. I don't want to fight fires. It just doesn't interest me.</p> <p>Drummin4fun missed the point of this blog.  Bear Valley and Stallion Springs and several other rural areas ARE NOT asking for an ambulance to be stationed there.  What the rural areas are requesting that the KERN COUNTY FIRE STATIONS THAT ARE MANNED WITH FIREFIGHTERS IS  ALLOW THEM TO BECOME PARAMEDICS SO THEY CAN START TREATING THE PATIENT IMMEDIATELY AND NOT HAVE TO WAIT UP TO AN HOUR.   The call volume for ALS would also increase as residents now know there could be an hour wait for so many times they drive themselves to the ER (with CP) or  have a family member drive them.  But it is hard to do CPR and drive at the same time. What may have been appropriate 15 years ago for EMS is not now.  The population has doubled and it is now time to move the EMS from Amish level to the current standard of care.</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_201027 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_201027 <p>Drummin4fun missed the point of this blog.  Bear Valley and Stallion Springs and several other rural areas ARE NOT asking for an ambulance to be stationed there.  What the rural areas are requesting that the KERN COUNTY FIRE STATIONS THAT ARE MANNED WITH FIREFIGHTERS IS  ALLOW THEM TO BECOME PARAMEDICS SO THEY CAN START TREATING THE PATIENT IMMEDIATELY AND NOT HAVE TO WAIT UP TO AN HOUR.   The call volume for ALS would also increase as residents now know there could be an hour wait for so many times they drive themselves to the ER (with CP) or  have a family member drive them.  But it is hard to do CPR and drive at the same time. What may have been appropriate 15 years ago for EMS is not now.  The population has doubled and it is now time to move the EMS from Amish level to the current standard of care.</p> <p>Lol, &quot;amish to current&quot;. In most other counties you would be lucky to get a volunteer fire department with a population the size of bear valley and stallion. Take a look at San Luis Obsipo, Tulare, San Bernadino, Madera, Fresno, the list goes on. I think we have it pretty good here. True L.A. County is an exception, not having any more volunteer departments (at least that i know of) but their financial situation and tax base is much much greater than Kern. </p> <p>So if I'm bias against fire than answer this. For the same price, would it be better to have a full time ambulance or a fire paramedic stationed in rural areas?</p> <p>People living in PMC accused the board of supervisors as well as Hall Ambulance for &quot;putting money in front of lives&quot;. They had an offer on the table to staff a full time paramedic ambulance for an increase of $10.00 a month from the home owners association fees. Their response was to turn it down and run Hall out of town. Explain that for me. If $10.00 a month isn't worth a human life....what is?</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_201067 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_201067 <p>Lol, &quot;amish to current&quot;. In most other counties you would be lucky to get a volunteer fire department with a population the size of bear valley and stallion. Take a look at San Luis Obsipo, Tulare, San Bernadino, Madera, Fresno, the list goes on. I think we have it pretty good here. True L.A. County is an exception, not having any more volunteer departments (at least that i know of) but their financial situation and tax base is much much greater than Kern. </p> <p>So if I'm bias against fire than answer this. For the same price, would it be better to have a full time ambulance or a fire paramedic stationed in rural areas?</p> <p>People living in PMC accused the board of supervisors as well as Hall Ambulance for &quot;putting money in front of lives&quot;. They had an offer on the table to staff a full time paramedic ambulance for an increase of $10.00 a month from the home owners association fees. Their response was to turn it down and run Hall out of town. Explain that for me. If $10.00 a month isn't worth a human life....what is?</p> <p>And to add to my statement....</p> <p>If the people of Stallion and Bear Valley want a paramedic firefighter, fine. I just don't think the rest of the county should be expected to pay for it. Do you?</p> http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_201068 http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/Blog/concernedcitizen/21522/#c_201068 <p>And to add to my statement....</p> <p>If the people of Stallion and Bear Valley want a paramedic firefighter, fine. I just don't think the rest of the county should be expected to pay for it. Do you?</p> <p>Hey, now that your finished banging your drum Hall drummer.  Your own company represenitives said thier wasn't enough $$/profit to maintain the PMC contract.  CDF, it will never happen.  They are fighting to keep the contracts they still have.  Why should the taxpayers subsidize a private company that could go bankrupt, have employee strike etc..  AND, you are missing the big picture.  The fire dept does not want to take away anything from the privates including your job!!.   If I was a  private paramedic, I dont think I would want to work for minimum wage, post at 7-11 at 3 am., or hold up an ER wall for 4 hours.   The fire dept. just wants to help IMPROVE the EMS system that your boss, the mayor, owns.  Get medics onscene sooner, to stabilize and treat a person.  Working together for the benefit of a patient.</p> <p>"If the people of Stallion and Bear Valley want a paramedic firefighter, fine. I just don't think the rest of the county should be expected to pay for it. Do you?"    I dont think the taxpayers should subsidize a private company.  The fire dept is putting stations, yes slowy, into rural areas to keep up with the population growth.  Ie; Stallion, 3rd person in Bear Valley, future station in Golden Hills.</p> <p>I have witnessed some horrific accidents where, properly trained and equipped firefighters spent long periods in vehicles, aircraft etc extricating people.  Unable to start an IV, push pain meds etc. because they are not allowed to.  Meanwhile the Medics, although willing, are untrained, nor equiped to be in an unsafe area. </p> <p>Obviously you are biased against fire medics.  Couldn't passe the test?  Had a bad scene?  Just go on believing what they tell you at the company meetings.  G