Tehachapi News

I, too, voted NO on prop 4.  I tried to imagine myself in the situation and realized that I would rather do anything but tell my parents, if I were a pregnant teen.  I'm afraid I would try to get rid of the fetus on my own.... somehow.  If I had a loving relationship with my parents, I doubt I would be sexually active.  My belief is that someone who seeks acceptance or "love" through sex is not secure in the love of their family.  I believe this is true regardless of the age of the female.

Also, is it even legal for an abortion, or any medical procedure, to be performed on a minor without consent of a legal guardian or parent?  Perhaps in the case of an emergency but otherwise I would think not.

Regarding abortion in general, I am against it.  I would like to see an alternative method of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy.  Perhaps the stigma of illegitimacy is not as strong as it once was.  Perhaps better publicity about such groups as the Catholic Children's Agency (not sure of the correct name) who connect pregnant females with prospective adoptive parents would help also.  A cousin of mine used this group many years ago to everyone's satisfaction.  The couple met with my cousin and paid for all her medical bills. 

My cousin had been impregnated by her father but never told any one in her family or in authority.  I guessed it after I saw the baby.  It was the image of her father when he was a baby.  Also, I found out much later that he had molested all three of his daughters.  There is, or was, a stigma attached to that back then and perhaps still is.  Many family tragedies remain secrets.

Wow! Good research! It looks like the laws already on the books need to be enforced, not new ones passed. And unfortunately, not all states require minor reporting of sexual abuse by health care professionals--something that needs to be addressed too.  It's time to start pulling licenses of people who don't do their job. But some of those quoted seemed to be that the parent was not notified of an abortion, not sexual abuse or complications of an abortion, not sexual abuse involved.

And in the case of a parent impregnating his daughter, this law will have no bearing.

Interesting that according to another blog, THS voted and prop 4 FAILED! Teens have a right to have to decide if they want to raise a child or not. Pregnancy rates may appear down in these states but how many girls get illegal abortions or go out of state to get an abortion? Or get punched in the stomach till misscarrage?

Yes Madkow--free access to birth control is one way to combat pregnancy.  I wonder is Palin's daughter would of gotten pregnant of she had the choice of using birth control or not?  Oh yeah right, Palin doesn't believe in birth control--she gave birth less than 9 mths after being married!!!!

So are we passing this law because people who work in clinics that provide abortions are not doing their job????

Good job on laying out a very intelligent case for Yes  on 4 Countygirl, I agree with Bill Handel and you and 90% of all the bloggers here, I already voted,  Yes on 4

Wow Countrygril - You've definitely done some research! I honestly have been so distracted by prop 8 that I haven't looked at many of the others.  Guess I'll be looking through my sample ballot tonight! I will be voting YES on Prop 4 and I can't understand why the state of California would want to take away the rights of parents to know what is going on with their child -- especially on an issue as important as a pending abortion. 

Here are a few Awsmom. Like many have already said....this is the real world and sadly many health care professionals are NOT angels with these girls best interests at heart. Also, I find it refreshing that you actually think that all these parents would insist their kids kept their babies. You have more faith in them than I do. I would see it the other way around. I'm sure there are so many parents who are just dying to raise their babies babies. They obviously were to burdened to notice their kids were sexually active to begin with. Again, statistics don't lie and the satatistics say that teen pregnancy in those states with these laws already in place is down from those that don't have them. 30 states. More than half the United States. Again, I think we would have noticed any negitive repercussions if there were any.

A Planned Parenthood affiliate in Arizona was found civilly liable for failing to report the fact that the clinic had performed an abortion on a 13-year-old girl who had been impregnated by her 23-year-old foster brother. The abortion provider did not report the crime, and the young girl was returned to the foster home where she was raped and impregnated a second time. [1]

As much as I dislike abortion and surgery on a minor without parental consent, I'm definitely voting no on 4.  I figure that most girls that are going to have an abortion probably don't have the type of parents that they can go to.  How many girls did you know in high school that had their friends punch them in the stomach until they miscarried?  Because I knew a few, and it's not right that they are afraid enough to resort to that.  That being said-- free birth control, easily available to all girls and women!!!!

i was in San Diego this weekend and came across a rally with at least 100 teens all pushing No on 4, it was interesting to see something different than the yes on 8 rallies

I already voted NO. Too many teens will have to have their baby's because of mom and dad's decision, with the teen not having any say in what is happening in their life.  And some of the teens who are pregnant and are seeking an abortion are also the ones who were not able to go to their parents to ask for assistance in birth control.  If Sarah Palin's daughter was not comfortable  seeking her mother's assistance in getting birth control, then how could she have gone to her asking help in getting an abortion?  The teen is going to be responsible for raising that child for the rest of her life, and should have a say whether or not as to be able to get an abortion. If an MD notifies a parent of a pending abortion, and the parent objects, is that MD still going to perform the abortion? No, and this proposed law is the first step in making abortions illegal.

Most teen parents raise children in poverty and sometimes neglect.  I've seen teen babys who have lived in a car seat to the point that when you lay the baby on his back, his legs are contracted in the sitting position.  I've done health checks on babes that had a completely flatten spots on the back of their head because they were left laying in a car seat 24 hrs a day.  Babes come in with bottle propped up at 6 weeks of age. I've had to hand newborn babies to teens that couldn't care less and are more concerned about talking on the phone to their friends than caring for their babies.  Ever talk to a teen who has a screaming, hungry 3 day old infant who thought the hospital would give her all the formula she needed and chose not to breast feed as it "would tie me down"? How about handing a babe to a meth user teen mom? Tears you heart out. Some of these teens would have been better off having an abortion. Passing this law is not going to decrease teen sex but increase the number of teens having babies. And more and more children are going to be raised in terrible circumstances.

"You'd be surprised how many sexual abuse cases go unnoticed due to the clinics not following proper protocol." Can you cite references? Healthcare professionals are required by law to report sexual abuse and take that responsibility seriously. And so a teen that has been sexually abused should be forced to have that baby because that parent feels they should? Not in my book.

In a perfect world, teens would not have sex and not be faced with these issues. But this is not the real world, as evident by Sarah Palin and her the apple doesn't fall far from the tree daughter.  Preserve the right for teens to have an abortion without parental interference. Keep abortion safe for teens. Don't force them to seek an abortion from an unlicensed person. Vote no on 4.

That being said, I personally would never get an abortion. But I support other womens/teens right to do so without restriction.

Scottso- I agree that kids aren't going to tell their parents everything even if the relationship is healthy. Do you honestly believe though that girls will go get back alley abortions(just think of how scary it would be to do it legally) just so they won't have to disappoint their parents?  I somehow highly doubt it, and if they do there is something seriously flawed there IMO. If the girl feels that her life would be threatened by disclosing this info to her parents there are ways around it. The reality is though that if a girl (and the boy) know that her parents will be informed if they were to in fact get pregnant maybe it will make them think twice about having sex or at least they will maybe take the extra precautions to prevent pregnancy. I personally believe that having that out available to young girls makes them less responsible for their actions,and not having to be accountable for their actions makes them a bit more reckless and less safe than if they had to actually be held accountable for their actions. Again these laws are already in place in 30 states and I don't know about you, but I've yet to hear about the soaring rates and horrific stories about these back alley abortions girls are trying to get because of them. These laws would help girls from child molesters and child predators. If parents were informed about abortions ahead of time follow up care for girls having complications either physically or mentally would go up significantly. After the initial embarrassment of informing your parents about the pregnancy, if abortion is the answer for them, don't you think it's healthier for a 15-16(or however old) girls parents to know what is going on than and help her through it instead of wondering why their daughter has shut them out and has suddenly become depressed and distant from them while dealing with it all on her own.

I think  you are right about people getting this prop mixed up with other abortion rights.......Personally I do not like Abortion. Non of my kids were given the test to test for downs or any other problems because to us it did not matter because we were going to keep then no matter what. Abortion was not a option for us.....I am choice....I believe that the government should not be able to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body. That being said I am only supportive of early termination within the first 3 months. After 3 months it should only be done to save the mother and even then its questionable. My complaint with libs and their support on abortion is that they support all the crazy crap like late term abortion. They vote no an any thing that has anything remotely to do with abortion....It is one of their positions that embarrasses me. Adoption is a better alternative then abortion. Me and my wife recently got custody of a beautiful 2 year old girl. This wonderful child has brightened our lives and we are thrilled to have her.....I know that there are many great people that would give their right arm to be able to adopt a child.....A yes on 4 the right thing to do.

Personally I'm really torn about this and this is one of the props I haven't made my mind up on yet.  If my girls ever became pregnant, as a father, I would want to know before any doctor performed an abortion, and I would hope  that they would come and tell my wife and me before considering an abortion -- but you never really know about that sort of thing until something happens that tests that.  If you think otherwise, I would suggest you are either a naive parent or you've lived a very, very sheltered life.

That said, even the very best kids sometimes do really stupid things -- sometimes they even compound those stupid things -- especially when they think they might be in very big trouble and/or take advice from possibly very stupid friends. This is why we make a distinction between adults and minors.  Kids just don't have the life experience and maturity to do the right thing all the time (and that goes for a lot of adults too apparently). Teenagers + High Anxiety situations = Combustible Scenario.  I certainly remember lots of stupidity in 15-20 year olds (including myself) when I was that age.

So despite all the folks who say "if you have a good rapport with your kids, this is not an issue," I don't think it's nearly that cut and dry.  If they are going to have an abortion, I would prefer my kids do it in a safe way rather than sneak off and have it done by some shady guy in an alley somewhere just because they are afraid of consequences.

To be clear on my position on abortion (which is really the most important thing to know when you are explaining your position on this prop), I am 100% against abortion as a form of birth control.  But I do believe it has its place and that there are ethical reasons for performing one, such as medical reasons.

Anyway, those are my thoughts as Tuesday approaches.  Certainly every law that comes about that uses the old, "but think of the children" line requires a lot of scrutinizing.  Those sorts of laws are the easiest to move politically because in our rediculous PC climate you are automatically pegged as a horrible person because "you didn't want to protect the kids!" no matter how misguided the proposed law might be.

Gube, Sadly I think many just don't educate themselves enough on these things. I think many just hear the word abortion and vote to shut it down thinking it will end up affecting adult women's abortion rights when this just isn't the case at all or worse....Parents just don't want to know what their kids are doing. I think some parents actually would vote No on this because they don't want to know if their kids are having sex or if she's had an abortion because with that comes a sense of failure and lack of responsibility on their part, and let's face it this generation is NOT known for being responsible for their actions!! They'd rather be left in the dark.  This prop really is about keeping our youth safe. It saddens me that it isn't passing by a landslide.

I am surprise that  prop 4 is not winning by a large percentage.......The poll That I found has the yes at 45% and the no's at 43% http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fieldpoll2-2008nov02,0,3135428.story

See I would think so to Job, but there are those who still hold on to the belief that this Prop would put girls in danger when in fact 30 states already have these laws in place. If there was some sort of backlash due to these laws we would have noticed them already. Actually, statistics show that teen pregnancy has decreased in states where these laws are already in place. How can you say NO to that?

I voted yes on Prop 4. It's a no brainer to me.

Voted already (absentee)... definitely   Yes on 4.  

Thank you for your response Gube.

I will vote yes on Prop 4.

Really? There is a new blog practically everyday either for or against Prop 8 but no one has any thoughts on Prop 4. I find this really hard to believe.